CleanGSR Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 "regulating" exactly! it's just that it's really hard to do that with something so strong like Oxygen... and how about safety? if anything were to go wrong for the car to catch fire, that little Oxygen tank would cause a much bigger explosion...causing other cars around danger! Um....seriously, no more than a big 10 pound nitrous tank sitting in the back of your car.....in either case you'd be screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lceah Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 you are right...just the thing is that it's not as bad as pure Oxygen tank... I've blown up sets in labs just trying to "regulate" reactions... you know what? now that I think about it...if it were possible to "divide up" the cylinder and make separate sections using trays or something, then this could work...that's how they do it in the big reactors in industries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannaBstuntin Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Um....seriously, no more than a big 10 pound nitrous tank sitting in the back of your car.....in either case you'd be screwed. Hence why I said I think both are illegal. But you should ask what's-his-name....James Matteau about the chemistry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Zex-nitrous port filter and adirect shot of pure Oxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lceah Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 there we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hence why I said I think both are illegal. Nitrous isn't illegal to carry around.... I'm pretty sure your just not allowed to have it hooked up to your engine. If you want to carry around an oxidixer in your back seat, go ahead.... but if you killed someone or injured someone in a wreck, then you'd get in trouble for the bottle, but it isn't illegal persay. Next comes the availability of liquid o2. They won't sell the stuff to any regular joe, like they can nitrous. The most you'd be able to get is compressed oxygen, and probably not more than 90% pure from a welding shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delsol209 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 all this sounds very dangerous from wat i read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 But you should ask what's-his-name....James Matteau about the chemistry I have watched solid iron burn in an oxygen environment. Having even a light stream of pure oxygen entered into the intake of a motor creates the potential for the rapid catastrophic oxidative reduction of your engine from the inside out (or at least until compression is lost). When iron is burnt in an oxygen stream, the area of highest oxygen concentration burns fastest, but the heat generated by the oxidation of iron supports the combustion of the rest of the sample. The more surface area, the faster it burns. For Chemistry demonstrations, we usually use laboratory steel wool. A pile of the steel wool the size of a 5 gallon bucket can be turned to a pile of rust in a matter of seconds. But I digress; any (ANY) metal will combine with oxygen in the right environment. Sometimes, that environment is air (20%), as in sodium, lithium, Magnesium and other Group 1A and 2A metals. Sometimes, that environment has to be higher (>20%, but not necessarily 100%), as in iron, aluminum, cadmium, etc. Don't be fooled into thinking you can dilute a pure oxygen stream quickly enough to make it safe. Remember, the gas coming out of the tank is pure oxygen (100%) and the nozzle on the tank is combustible (wheather it be metal, plastic, carbon fiber, etc.). All that tank nozzle needs is the right spark. Now, to make this safe (and I have thought of this), there are really two options: One: make a pre-diluted mixture, pressurize it, tank it, pump it into the motor. Gas leaks aside, the main issue would then be controlling the amount of pressure that is generated in the combustion chamber. I would not use nitrogen for the dilution mixture, but rather argon. Two: liquefy the oxygen, mix the liquid with liquefied ammonia gas (again, another mixture, since 100% oxygen is not safe), tank it, use it in a chemical rocket motor. For more info on this, check out old Air Force rockets from the 60's and 70's. Both options are cost prohibitive to be done safe. If you guys are really interested in throwing caution into the wind, you should check out running your engine on pure hydrogen peroxide (1950's hot rod fuel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ...at one point, the reaction would go backwards! so much Oxygen and since it's so reactive it would react with the products and cause the reaction to go backwards... You're thinking of reaction equilibria, and that only applies to reversible reactions. Oxidative reduction is not a reversible reaction. Your mind is in the right place though. Everyday we turn on our cars, there is a chemical reaction taking place with a very specific stoichiometry dictating which are the limiting reagents, and which are the excess. On earth, in gasoline motors, fuel is supposed to be the limiting reagent, but with throttle position changes, the PGM-Fi plays catch-up and often a few milliseconds go by with either a rich mix or lean mix in the combustion chamber. No way of going backwards that is know to man, but if you guys figure out a way to take care exhaust and turn into gasoline and oxygen, let me be the first to know. Edit: it is possible to turn car exhaust into gasoline, but the process is neither spontaneous nor straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 essentially this is the point of nitrous.... and thats like 34% oxygen tho. But I'd imagine that 100% oxygen would destroy an engine. you'd have such rapid buring that you couldn't control it. It would melt/burn everything in its path. it would melt pistons, heads, and cylinder walls. I am not sure about the 34% figure, but Pyrorocketeer is dead on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 its ~36% oxygen by weight from what I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 its ~36% oxygen by weight from what I've read. Where oxygen weights 15.999 grams per mole and nitrogen weights 14.007 grams per mole and nitrous oxide is two atoms of nitrogen for every atom of oxygen, NOS is 36.351% oxygen by weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelSolFreak Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 me and my bro tried this with a lawn mower engine and it wouldnt stay started for very long. it would start, rev up really fast then die. so then we decided it wasnt getting enough fuel so we tryed it again but we pumped the primer while it was running. holy crap! the engine wound up extremely fast flame came out the carb and then there was a big BOOM and it stoped running! lol! scared the living crap out of us! we took it apart and found out that we snapped the rod! it was bad ass! also, the air we breath is only 27% oxygen. i specificly remember that figure from earth science class. plus, why do you think fish die when you take them out of water? they breath oxygen. but they are get their o2 from water which contains 33.333% oxygen. they prett much suffocate from lack of oxygen. anyways what im getting at, which is just a repeat of whats already been said, it will work but it needs to be regulated. + your engine must be f*cking bulletproof! **edit** we did this test with a small tank of welding o2, blow torch attachment, some pvc, duct-tape, rubber hose, and more duct-tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 i with i could have chimed in here earlier. thats all nitrous is is a super oxidizer. nitrous itself doesnt burn , it super oxidizes the fuel and in turn makes that burn better. oxygen itself doesnt burn. it only makes fires that are burning hotter. so for hungs original queston , they already do pump oxygen into engines , its called nitrous oxide , lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ...hungs original queston , they already do pump oxygen into engines , its called nitrous oxide , lol. Hung's original question involved pure gaseous oxygen, which creates the potential to far exceed the 36% oxygen enrichment provided by NOS, hence all the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleanGSR Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 I knew that cranny. My thoughts were derived from how well Nitrous Oxide works. So I figured that there would be an advantage if you could make a mixture that was more oxygen rich than N2O like having 40 or 45% oxygen content. Obviously I have no where near the knowledge as many in this thread, but it made for some interesting conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ...but it made for some interesting conversation. +1 And good chemistry conversation. Personally, I like the tried and true method of nitro/methane on 26 pounds of boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegger Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ^^^^ Werd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lceah Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 James Matteu, you are right...I completely forgot that it's not reversible... also, using Argon, as inert gas to mix it with, is a good idea what DelSolFreak said proves the point that it's just hard to control it (to let it burn slowly) great discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 we did this test with a small tank of welding o2, blow torch attachment, some pvc, duct-tape, rubber hose, and more duct-tape... Industrial grade Oxygen (welding O2) is 99.5% oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegger Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 It's what we use on patients lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lceah Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 lol could come in handy ;) jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 It's what we use on patients lol I thought it was (from low to high purity): Air Industrial Aviator Medical Analytical High Ultra High Sure you're not using Medical grade (you know, those small tanks they keep in the O2 closet of the ER)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegger Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 We get our oxygen from a welding company, not a medical air supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lceah Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I used to have access to some in a pharm. company...it must have been pretty pure... lol we gotta visit a welding company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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