les.delancy Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I know you can do a lot with ITBs on a NA engine. Would it be productive at all to run ITBs with a high boost turbo set up? I seems like with forced industion, a large single TB would work jut as well as ITBs. Any thoughts? Ofcourse on a GSR, I suppose you would have to loose your variable length intake runners to go ITB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 i'd say no. all you want those itb's for is for short runner length and least restriction. you hook a pipe or a plenum up to them, you just lost the whole point of the system. I think they are a big waste anyways..... plus intake doesn't really matter when boosting, its all being shoved through anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les.delancy Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Those were pretty much my thoughts too. PS - what the hell is a "trubo" anyway? Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Adding a properly sized plenum onto ITB's has only gained power in the setups I've seen. Manifold for boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 When you add a plenum, what did you just create..... an everyday run of the mill intake manifold. I don't see the performance gains... 4 throttle bodies isn't really greater than 1. espeically that close to the head, lots of turbulant air comming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 you can run itb's with boost , but tuning would be a fukin biatch. and really , the way youd have to run a charge pipe to each tb , when it was done and piped , it would look like what do you think? an intake manifold maybe? haha. SSR is right , manfold for boost. simply doesnt make any sense to run itb's with boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 ITB's make good (and broader) power with boost. You just have the set the plenum up right (does not make it a manifold), and tuning becomes harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 ITB's make good (and broader) power with boost. You just have the set the plenum up right (does not make it a manifold), and tuning becomes harder. I'd like to see some dyno sheets that prove this statement..... if you take runners, box them in.... what do you have..... a regular intake manifold. this one just has little throttle bodies in it. how many times have i said this...intake doesn't matter when boosting! so how can it create more power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleanGSR Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 So you're saying that (for example) taking a boosted and built B18C1 with the stock intake manifold and swapping the mani to an edelbrock won't effect horsepower? That's a bunch of crap. It will noticably increase power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 SSR , adding a plenum to ITB's , does in fact make it an intake manifold. the only difference between ITB's and an intake manny , is the plenum dude. and i already said tuning is a biatch , but thanks for confirming , lol. look at a GSR manny with secondary butterflys , it is very close to being ITB's with a plenum. just longer runners. hung , swapping mannys on boosted cars , im not saying it wont make ANY diffrence , but very little dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Then you're both very wrong. Full-Race IM vs. AIR (which dyno'd better than the Edelbrock Victor-X which was the best on the market). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Then you're both very wrong. Full-Race IM vs. AIR (which dyno'd better than the Edelbrock Victor-X which was the best on the market). Doesn't look like we are very wrong are we? Hummm whats that an whopping 10 extra peak ftlbs? and maybe 10 extra horsepower? HOLY HELL!!!!!!! Look out guys! I'm not impressed. See the intake manifold design does barely anything when boosting. One question tho.... how does it change tuning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleanGSR Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Well, you said "intake doesn't matter when boosting", and his dyno just proved that it did. Doesn't matter if it was 2hp difference, he proved that the intake mani does make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 LOL he went from a decent intake (i'm assuming... frankly i don't care, but....) , to a top of the line manifold, and only a 10 hp gain..... it does almost nothing. so i still stand with my comment, It doesn't do sh!t for the money you pay. Besides I want to see this broader powerband with the ITB's that we were told about..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Looks like 30-40 hp in the midrange. More than that in torque. Thats a significant difference. Want to see the broader powerband? Do a search on H-T in the FI forum for ITB's. Look for the thread by Tony the Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Well, you said "intake doesn't matter when boosting", and his dyno just proved that it did. Doesn't matter if it was 2hp difference, he proved that the intake mani does make a difference. hung , swapping mannys on boosted cars , im not saying it wont make ANY diffrence , but very little dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleanGSR Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 You can quote me all you want.....but he changed his original quote from "doesn't do crap on a boosted car" (something like that) to "doesn't do crap for the money" Those are completly different comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Looks like 30-40 hp in the midrange. More than that in torque. Thats a significant difference. Want to see the broader powerband? Do a search on H-T in the FI forum for ITB's. Look for the thread by Tony the Tiger. his low end, nor his mid range didn't change at all, the upper range did a little. (mid range is in the middle fracktard, not halfway through the top end) I don't want to be searching all over gods green earth for a dyno sheet.... y don't you just post it? And if it isn't boosted, I don't want to see it. I know it can help NA cars, but boosted, its a waste of money. You can quote me all you want.....but he changed his original quote from"doesn't do crap on a boosted car" (something like that) to "doesn't do crap for the money" Those are completly different comments. by saying that they don't do sh!t, i mean that that different intake increased his peak hp by 1/60 of his total.... now put that into one of your cars... thats less than 5hp on a 300hp engine..... like puting a cold air intake on a stock engine.... doesn't do sh!t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I went to his page, no evidence as to performance gains with the ITB's. better throttle response as to be expected, but nothing else. he doesn't show any graphs like I asked. I still stand with my original statement that its pointless to use itb's on a turbo setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 That big gain is in the midrange. Right before it crosses over to topend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolLesHonda Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Glad to see I didn't miss much. Pyro is still jealous of ..SSR.. being smarter lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS John Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Whatever. They're splitting hairs. Pyro just shouldn't have said that it made no difference and everyone would agree with him. You get a minimal bump in power for the money and the work you have to throw down. Nobody's technically wrong in this argument but they do disagree very adamantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 no wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Pyro is still jealous of ..SSR.. being smarter lol. LOL! Jealous of some prick that thinks he knows all..... yeah.... well not sh!t it makes a difference, if you orient your damn spark plugs differently, it will make a difference. no 2 engines are the same, slight differences in everything matters. What i meant was it isn't much of a change at all..... as he proved to you, by that massive increase in hp. Still no proof on the ITB's yet SSR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwurlz Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 ITB's with a Turbo, can greatly reduce turbo lag. Also, look at it this way, lets say each ITB butterfly is 1.5 inches diameter. Multiply that by 4 and you get the same flow as you would a 6" throttle body. I have yet to see a 6" throttle body on a 4 cyclinder street car. I have seen boosted ITB's and am actually setting up a 1.8T 20 Valve VW engine to run 2 bar boost through CB performance throttle bodies (based of a Weber Sidedraught design) using a T3/T4 60 Trim Ball bearing Innovative Unit. With the paper calculations we should be able to hit 450 WHP peaking as soon as 3900 RPM. All going in a Longtravel Baga buggy. ITB's are great for boost, you just need a lot of tuning and dyno time to get them perfect, but they will allow individual cyclinder tuning at finer increments than a common manifold single Throttle body. 911 Porsche Turbo race cars are all boosted though ITB's. VF engineering kits for the M3 BMW are boosting through ITB's. If you have the skill and the cash its definetely worth it. The hard part I am going to have is creating a tuned equal length header before the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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