James Matteu Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Does anyone have a new crankshaft pulley for a 1995-97 Honda Accord EX-V6 lying around? I was getting some videos ready to post in an effort to get some help on a problem with the power steering belt when I noticed the crankshaft pulley wobbling. Here's the run down: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0015.mp4 Here's the noise: At start-up: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0016.mp4 After a few seconds after start-up, I have my epiphany and realize the crankshaft pulley isn't supposed to be wobbling: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0017.mp4 Here is my attempt to video the wobble, but I only have a Class 4 microSDHC card in my EVO so the write speed looses a few frames per second and then photobucket degrades the video further, but here it is anyways: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0018.mp4 Boy, these forums are really cathartic, I have been staring at this problem for a while and didn't realize what was what till today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgogo Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 dude i gotta say your awesome for this PERFECT "i need XYZ" post. Ill keep my eyes out for ya (NOOBS THIS IS WHAT YOUR POSTS SHOULD LOOK LIKE!) ps, free bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Does anyone have a new crankshaft pulley for a 1995-97 Honda Accord EX-V6 lying around? I was getting some videos ready to post in an effort to get some help on a problem with the power steering belt when I noticed the crankshaft pulley wobbling. Here's the run down: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0015.mp4 Here's the noise: At start-up: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0016.mp4 After a few seconds after start-up, I have my epiphany and realize the crankshaft pulley isn't supposed to be wobbling: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0017.mp4 Here is my attempt to video the wobble, but I only have a Class 4 microSDHC card in my EVO so the write speed looses a few frames per second and then photobucket degrades the video further, but here it is anyways: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0018.mp4 Boy, these forums are really cathartic, I have been staring at this problem for a while and didn't realize what was what till today. Nice post. So, it was wobbling. Loose I"m guessing? Hogged it out? Need to replace? A somewhat unusual problem. I would be wondering about the cause. Has it ever been removed? Do you know maintenance/repair history of the vehicle? Probably going to be a dealer part - but, ya may have to hit the salvage yards. Or, you may want to hit the salvage yards when the dealer parts guy tells you it'll be $450 plus tax for a new one. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raley Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Id suggest junk yard... youll wanna stay factory since you dont have a balanced bottom end. When i finally make it back out to the junkyard ill look. Keep us updated so i dont have a part i dont need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thank you all for your replies. I decided to get a new one from Majestic Honda: $250.10 for the Crankshaft Pulley, Bando PS Belt, shipping, and handling. Thanks for everyone's fast replies. 'cmgogo' is right noobs: give a little, get a little; give a lot, get faster replies. The repair history for my car 'Dual-500' is that I've been doing it all since 2001 after my mom gave it to me where she was the second owner; she and the first owner only changed oil, brakes, and PCV Valve. I removed the Crankshaft Pulley when I did the timing belt (I've gone through two since I've had it) and when I changed all the oil seals (Rear Main too). I've still got my pulley holder and have always torqued to spec. The outer portion of the Crankshaft Pulley is the only part wobbling, on the V6 it's the only side affected by a failing harmonic balancer. The PS Belt rides on the inner track and is not dampened; the 5th gen V6 uses three drive belts unlike the I-4's two belt design. You're right, I should have checked the Crankshaft Pulley Bolt for tightness but felt I found my problem after watching the outer part of the pulley wobble while the PS inner track was steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thank you all for your replies. I decided to get a new one from Majestic Honda: $250.10 for the Crankshaft Pulley, Bando PS Belt, shipping, and handling. Thanks for everyone's fast replies. 'cmgogo' is right noobs: give a little, get a little; give a lot, get faster replies. The repair history for my car 'Dual-500' is that I've been doing it all since 2001 after my mom gave it to me where she was the second owner; she and the first owner only changed oil, brakes, and PCV Valve. I removed the Crankshaft Pulley when I did the timing belt (I've gone through two since I've had it) and when I changed all the oil seals (Rear Main too). I've still got my pulley holder and have always torqued to spec. The outer portion of the Crankshaft Pulley is the only part wobbling, on the V6 it's the only side affected by a failing harmonic balancer. The PS Belt rides on the inner track and is not dampened; the 5th gen V6 uses three drive belts unlike the I-4's two belt design. You're right, I should have checked the Crankshaft Pulley Bolt for tightness but felt I found my problem after watching the outer part of the pulley wobble while the PS inner track was steady. That's what I was looking for - HB/Pulley past removals - I should have been more specific. If you can mic the crank it would be a good idea. So the balancer bolt was loose? It was wobbling on the crankshaft loose? Or, is the damed thing somehow just bent? Sitting here at the PC on a saturday night for a quick email check I can't and won't speculate on the rockwell hardness of the pulley/HB where it interfaces with the crankshaft or the hardness of the crank itself. Hopefully, the crank isn't beat up so the new pulley/HB will fit nice and snug on the crankshaft. Be sure it does or you may need to do some kind of magic there. If you've been torquing it correctly when doing timing belts, it may not have seated correctly the last time it was off. Who knows? One thing for sure, ya don't want a repeat performance. One thing I'd suggest is inspection. Once you put it back together, inspect and re-torque after 100 miles, 500 miles, 1000 miles, etc. How many miles since it was last removed for timing belt maintenance? Oh yeah, I would replace bolt and washer too - regardless of how it looks. For the $10 it's just not worth it not to. An ounce or prevention is always worth a pound of cure - sometimes much more. Flush out the internal threads at the end of the crank with brake cleaner or other suitable solvent and compressed air and watch your eyes. When you re-install put a little white grease on woodruff key and keyway (cotton swab) to ensure it floats nicely and use anti-sieze on the bolt threads to ensure it torques correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 I checked the bolt today, it was still torqued to spec, current pulley is seated firmly on the crankshaft. The only part with any play in it is the outer ring where the Alternator and A/C belt tracks lie; the distal portion of the crankshaft pulley relative to the harmonic balancer portion. Last timing belt change was 48k miles ago back in Feb '08. I'll use white lithium on the woodruff key this time. In the past, I have used spray silicone on both the threads and key. The only anti-seize compound I have is Molykote-77, can I use a silicone based high-temp molybdenum graphite paste here? Helms doesn't specify a lubricant for this application. I know I have to lubricate to get the right torque spec, but I've never considered a never seize type product. I would have to order the bolt and washer, it never occurred to me to replace them though I am curious if this is suggested by you cause you suspect the pulley itself has come loose. I did a search on wobbly crank pulleys and actually found that this is not a common problem, but isn't unheard of. I found a few Civic and one Altima owner who posted some info on their woes; the Altima owner posted a video and his belt makes the same pattern of noise as mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Yes, I assumed the pulley had come loose on the crankshaft. If not, then re-use of bolt and washer is fine and dandy. No need to replace. So the actual HB pulley assy went bad? Strange. Any lube is fine for the woodruff key and keyway - I only suggested white grease since I keep a tube in my service caddy and use it. Sounds like you are doing everything right already. The anti-sieze or a dab of grease or other lube on the threads will ensure it torques correctly and the threads don't just bind up - I don't think that has been happening though. Just FYI. When sharing experience on a forum one never knows the experience level of the OP, so I usually put in plenty of detail. Moly-kote is fabulous on threads - it's about the best there is. Once you button it up it will be fine. Good job and thanks for the update. I always use a genuine anti-sieze product on spark plug threads - and that or any reasonable substitute for other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks! And I plan to mic the crank on my next timing belt change. I had planned this since I have a bunch of other old-V6* stuff to do: clean/inspect my hydraulic tappets, inspect/adjust exhaust valve lash, new distributor o-ring, new timing belt tensioner, and new water pump. * I will have approx. 300,000.00 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 I got the parts Friday, but have been too busy to do the work. Majestic sent me an old Power Steering (PS) belt. Bando doesn't make a 4PK1137 sized Rib-Ace Belt any longer. That size has been superseded by the 8mm larger 4PK1145 size. Both fit. Today, the Crankshaft Pulley forced my hand. I was pulling out of the driveway to run an errand and the steering became stiff and then I heard something hit the firewall. I pulled over and turned it off only to find the PS belt had shredded, the A/C belt was shredding and rolling off the Crankshaft Pulley, and the Alternator belt was just fine. I turned the car back on and slowly pulled it back into the driveway; I called to reschedule my errand for tomorrow so I could spend the time to do this now. Out with the old: I couldn't find the silicone spray, so I used white lithium on the bolt threads and washer. The old Crankshaft Pulley next to the new, see how the outer ring has separated at the Harmonic Balancer: Here's the damaged goods and the new-new: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0020.mp4 No more belt noise!: http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/Js2d355jf69lsd/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0021.mp4 Note my hydraulic tappets are so dirty the motor sounds like a diesel in training. I have it scheduled for the next timing belt change, but it is so loud that I get real paranoid about oil flow in the head and constantly check the oil level; I am fearful of scoring the Crankshaft or Camshaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 So it's press fit and just slid off? Or did something metal fatigue and crack/break? Nice job. Tappets banging around ain't good - run some thicker oil in it until you do the maintenance - like 50w valvoline racing or 20-50 or even 60w. That should help quiet it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 So it's press fit and just slid off? Or did something metal fatigue and crack/break? Nice job. Tappets banging around ain't good - run some thicker oil in it until you do the maintenance - like 50w valvoline racing or 20-50 or even 60w. That should help quiet it down. Its not press fit. It is that center part, a ring of rubber, then the outer ring. It was the rubber that got old and came apart. I had a feeling someone would say something about the dirty tappets, so I took a video of the motor warm after driving on the highway. Typical dirty tappets, they get quiet at high RPMs and with warm oil. Video Tappets Warm On the Legend forums, they say the noisy tappets won't cause any harm, but I'm with you, I don't like it. I thought thicker oil would make it worse. I'll switch to 10W30 on next change and see what happens; I'm on Mobile1 Synthetic 5W30 right now. I don't think 50W or 60W would be good, that's really thick and would bog the motor down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Its not press fit. It is that center part, a ring of rubber, then the outer ring. It was the rubber that got old and came apart. I had a feeling someone would say something about the dirty tappets, so I took a video of the motor warm after driving on the highway. Typical dirty tappets, they get quiet at high RPMs and with warm oil. Video Tappets Warm On the Legend forums, they say the noisy tappets won't cause any harm, but I'm with you, I don't like it. I thought thicker oil would make it worse. I'll switch to 10W30 on next change and see what happens; I'm on Mobile1 Synthetic 5W30 right now. I don't think 50W or 60W would be good, that's really thick and would bog the motor down. Depending upon how bad they get - too much clatter and it will flat top the cam. The part of the cam that gets ground off will end up in the crankcase. 50 and 60w oil won't bog anything down and if it quiets the clatter it may save you some real headaches. In the winter 20-50 will work fine. The motor in my hatch is shot and burns oil. Put a rebuilt head on it last may and the bottom end is just worn out. I run 50w in it and smokes way less than with 30w in it. Read that somewhere and it works. Thcker oil should help quiet the worn lifters in your car. Give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't think I'm supposed to mix different weights, so I gotta wait until the next change cause I just put in 5W30 today (I changed the oil while doing the Crank Pulley). But I'm going to give that a try so I'm not buying Camshafts next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The way that thing sounds, mixing oil viscosity is the least of your concerns. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 LOL, thanks. Why not say how you really feel, LOL. On Wednesday, I'll pick up a 5qt. jug of Mobile1 Synthetic 20W50. I'll see what kind of change there is, then move on from there. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 You bet bro. Ask the guy at the parts store - have them advise you. Tell them what I suggested and why. The noisy lifters can cause damage over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 You never did characterize the pulley failure. What went wrong with it? Metal fatigue or did the press job just slide off causing it to fail? Let me know if stepping up the viscosity helps with the lifters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Its not press fit. It is that center part, a ring of rubber, then the outer ring. It was the rubber that got old and came apart. The mode of failure was a combination of mechanical stress and possible ozone exposure (a big problem in Florida), it just looked dry rotted. Again, the outer ring is not press on, I can slip it back into place by hand. It was the rubber that held the two together. Once the rubber failed, the Crank Pulley was a goner. On a side note, since my belts aren't rubbing the Crank Pulley any longer, my car feels like it picked up another 15hp (butt dyno); I even hit 125mph today and the motor felt like it wanted more but I backed off cause my suspension, tires, rims, brakes aren't setup properly for those speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-500 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The mode of failure was a combination of mechanical stress and possible ozone exposure (a big problem in Florida), it just looked dry rotted. Again, the outer ring is not press on, I can slip it back into place by hand. It was the rubber that held the two together. Once the rubber failed, the Crank Pulley was a goner. On a side note, since my belts aren't rubbing the Crank Pulley any longer, my car feels like it picked up another 15hp (butt dyno); I even hit 125mph today and the motor felt like it wanted more but I backed off cause my suspension, tires, rims, brakes aren't setup properly for those speeds. 125 mph not in the car with the noisy lifters??? Thanks for splaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Matteu Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 125 mph not in the car with the noisy lifters??? The lifters are noisy when the oil is cold and/or RPMs are below 2-grand. I was well above 2-grand and the motor was warm, so the lifters where doing their job without making noise. It's a classic Honda V6 lifter issue, noisy when cold and oil pressure is low (low RPMs). Note: My stock intake tube has that harmonic frequency sweet-spot at 3k, just like most stock Honda intakes. My Intake Air Bypass solenoid switches at 4k. So, getting up to those speeds is a double wammy, as far as RPMs go. The wammy hit harder this time cause the belts wheren't bumping uglies with the Crank Pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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