optional187 Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 i just decided to make a whole different thread for this because i didn't want to hi-jack that other guys. anyways...whats it take to run a supercharger on a d16? just out of curiousity, cause i don't have the money right now, if i were to put a supercharger on my d16 with stock internals do you think it would be a big risk? or would it be ok? i mean, i want to put on the intake, header, and get my un-temporary exhaust before i do anything else to the engine, but would it be bad to supercharge stock internals? Out of the box, the JRSC as well as the GReddy turbo kit, were made to work with stock internals. yeah the kits were built for stock internals, but they both run similar boost. turbo once you do internals will handle higher boost but the supercharger is stuck running 7-10 psi max boost. i think that i would rather supercharge my car instead of turbo it. but thats just what i'm thinking right now. you guys say that i can run it on stock internals, but what about fuel? would i need to do stuff to the fuel system to be able to run it? ignition? etc. what my plan is: put my intake on when it gets here in about a week. lower the car. wheels and tires. header and final exhaust. and from there i don't exactly know what i want to do. i might want to dress up the interior a little bit, or i might put msd ignition on it, something like that. anyways, what am i going to need to do first before i put a supercharger on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddySol Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Hmmm...I think those kits come with fuel management stuff, not the greatest, but fine for running the kit out of the box. Maybe you'll need some injectors and a fuel pump, but I'm not sure. It's a good thing you got a short ram, cause the S/C would run better with the short ram than the CAI. I was thinking about going S/C, but the JRSC and Vortec kits are expensive. As well, the Vortec seems to have issues last I heard about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 8, 2003 Author Share Posted March 8, 2003 yeah dude, the s/c's are expensive as hell! at first they look more expensive than a turbo, but then you have to think about intercooler and all that good stuff. i think its like $1599 for the turbo from greddy for my car, plus another $800 for the intercooler. that alone is around $2400 bucks. which is why i have pretty much decided to just go ahead and get a supercharger from JR (which i believe is around $2500?). this crap seems expensive as hell, but then again it bolts on a claimed 100hp+ which is pretty much the best hp per gain you can get for a civic, besides a motor swap that you later turbo. but hell, even if i swapped in a b18 (or later trade the civic for a gsr) i would still go JRSC instead of turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 that 100+hp gain is bs. with the jrsc you lose xx% of your power before you gain anything, so really you may gain 100hp but you're NOT actually gaining that over stock. vortech are wastes of money, you dont see the hp gains until 7-8k rpm, before that ur actually losing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 9, 2003 Author Share Posted March 9, 2003 when they put one in the integra in honda tuning a few months ago it got 100hp gain in the HIGH revs, like you said. and it didn't improve much at all in the 1/4 mile. maybe i'll just re-think a few things and go turbo, but that to me seems like more than i want to get myself into. the greedy kit for my car looks like it wouldn't be all that much of a handful, that and their intercooler. isn't that turbo pretty much the same one in 95-99 eclipse turbo's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 haha yeah it is, its a lil 15g. the apex kit retails at 2600, but i'm not sure how big of a turbo it uses. personally i like the hks gt2535 for the sohc civics, but this turbo usually costs as much as some of the kits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 yeah, money will be a factor. haha. if i do actually get a turbo, which is like...MONTHS down the road, it will more than likely be the greddy kit. it would be best for me i think. i mean, it would be my first turbo'd car. hell, my first car! so i think it would be easier for me to learn on before i go out and get something really expensive and end up f*cking something up, know what i mean? how much of a gain do you think i would get from the greddy kit and greddy intercooler? oh, and what else am i going to need to run the turbo? boost controller? timer? etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 greddy makes good kits for turbo cars excluding the crapsubishi's. for a civic i'd say go with either a drag, hks, or apexi kit, the quality is far superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 this is true, but even so...i think i would need a little more experience with turbo's before i go out and spend 2500 on just the turbo alone, agree'd? i mean, i don't really want anything thats going to make a tremendous amount of hp for my first turbo, cause i know i'd go boost crazy and blow my engine or something. even if the quality suffers a bit, i still have less of a chance of messing up my engine to where i need to buy a new one, and i will learn A LOT on that turbo. then maybe later on i'll go ahead and put some real turbo's on a car that is worthy of real turbos. perhaps a 3000gt anyways, its like i've said before, i have a while before i will actually be in the market for a turbo. can't wait though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 hks might be a little extreme, but the apexi kit is a really high quality kit same with the drag kit. i just dont like the greddy kit as its just an eclipse turbo. i'm still not sold on the legitamecy of the 3000gt as a sports car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I would have to argue for the 3000gt on this one... wanted one since I was about 10. Though they are much slower in the AT, and w/ a manual if you don't know how to drive it, it has enormous power and speed potential if you know what you are doing. Plus, they look pretty badass w/ only rims and tint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 price of mods vs hp gains, any of the twin turbo's are better then the 3000gt. the biggest turbo's ive ever seen on a 3000gt are twin td04's (13g's, smaller then an eclipse), the only thing they have goin for them is awd, but compare them to other twin turbo awd's (933 tt carerra, 996 tt carerra, skyline gt-r) and they get spanked, even some 4cyl. turbo's (STi & Evo's)spank a 3000gt. they are heavy and they never progressed with their technology, thats why its not around anymore, they used the same engine format, same weak transmissions, same awd system, only the areodynamics changed slightly in the later years. the only reason they even competed with other import sports cars at the time was because they bosted 320 hp instead of the 250 out of the rx7, 280 out of an nsx, and had to have awd to compete with a supra and a 300zx. in my mind they were the weakest out of the import sports cars, and dont have any redeaming factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 man, i'm not really in the mood to argue right now. but i think we all know my place on 3000gt's. they are awesome cars. sure they will get spanked by a supra. and the na versions will get spanked by even civics (i've done it...both happy and sad at the same time.) but they are awesome looking cars, and they have really good potential. its a certain love that you have to have for them to be able to think of them as an incredible car, i have that love, dd_biggy has that love, and drone_007 has that love. i'm sure drone will step in on this arguement as soon as he see's it, he's stepped in on this arguement on other threads. bottom line is that they are good cars stock and modified. look incredible. but they suffer from a syndrome know all to well by americans...they are overweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 overweight and get their ass handed to them by cars with 2 less cylinders, and 1 less turbo. as for potential, the only reason they are fast at all is due to the awd drivetrain, and really supra's, rx7's and even 300zx's run faster times with less modifications. whats the fastest time a 3000gt has run? i know skylines are in the 7's and so are the 180sx's, ive seen rx7s run 8's and supras are well into the 8's. i really see no potential for the 3000gt other then a fast car light to light which isnt that impressive concidering the other cars in its class are rwd, and the awd ones in its class will spank it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 i know of a certain stealth that runs ten's no nos. i've put the link up so many times on this site that i think i should just put it in my signature. people don't really drag 3000gt's, they are more of a turn car...hints the awd. put good suspension, breaks, and a little bit of power adders and the 3kgt will get around a track pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 and the skyline, sti, evo's, nsx, & rx7's arent track cars? the only reason 3000gt's run fast times is due to the awd, and skylines with the same mods run faster. put similar suspension mods on any of the cars listed above and they will out run the 3kgt on a track. i understand that they are nice cars, but they dont really compare to any of the other cars that they were designed to compete against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Maybe it's just me, but I never really saw the 3000gt actually "competing" in it's class... it didn't need to. It boasted the 320 horse engine and badass looks, combined w/ relative affordability compared to other cars. Yea, it is heavy, but I've seen a stealth (same basic car, but you all knew that) run a low ten (courtesy the aforementioned link). Maybe the technology too didn't really progress like that in the other cars, but it was selling nonetheless, thus no real changes were needed. It was meant as a zippy car for the occasional stoplight, and the awd made it have a larger consumer market. IMO, the reason people haven't lightened up and dragged 3000gt's is because they are either 1. too lazy, 2. too incompetant, or 3. they just don't want to risk screwing up such a kick-ass quality car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 it never competed not because it didnt need to, its because it couldnt. the supra is rwd with same hp and will beat a vr-4 down the 1320 and around a track, rx7's, evos, sti's, gt-r's, and nsx's all boast less hp and do likewise. as for price, the only one that the vr-4 costs less then is an nsx. the vr4 base priced at $41,300, supra $38,000, rx7 $33,000 and the nsx around $90,000. if however you live in japan, then its a little cheaper then the more techologically advanced skyline but only by $5000, and i wont even compare the 3000gt's price to the evo's or the sti's. the reason it was discontinued was because it WASN'T selling, not because of new tarrifs imposed by the US government like the supra and rx7, who both lived on in japan finally ending production in 2001, where as the 3000gt went out in 98 with the last of the stateside 3kgt's. as for no real changes were needed? how about a tranny that can handle over 280 whp? how about an engine that doesnt fall apart? how about a suspension setup that could at least rival some of its competitors? awd actually made the consumer market smaller at the time. the reason that 3000gt's arent dragged (btw there are other forms of racing) is because they cant be lightened up. a lot of the weight comes from its solid steel frame, and its heavy awd system that is far out of date at the time of its conception. not to mention the fact that you still cant buy a descent sized turbo kit for the 3kgt, you can find twin kits that have turbos twice the size as any twin kit for the 3kgt for the 300zx, which btw can't be single turbo'd. i agree they are nice cars, but a drag/track car they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 i agree they are nice cars, but a drag/track car they are not. i pretty much agree. but i disagree with the fact that they cannot be made into track cars. my oh crap, i gotta get to school damnit! i'll finish this later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I gotta agree w/ not finding decent turbo kits for 'em, but who says you need to buy a kit? honda_civicex95, we need your link again.... =P Also, you are right about the weight, though for a price that can also be custom made out of a lighter material i.e. aluminum. Yea, it would definitely cost an arm and a leg, but could be done. The advantages the other cars had over it were the lighter frame and, if they had awd, the system that put it to the ground was lighter as well. I'm not going to come out and say that with the same money and such that a 3kgt would come out and smoke the doors off an rx7 (which was also discontinued in the us due to problems with the engine blowing up, if you want to talk about engines falling apart), but for a price it is a very competant drag and track car. And how do you figure that the awd made the consumer market smaller? I see them all the time up here in CO sprgs, whereas you nearly never see the rx7 or supra, as w/ the snow they can't get around.... obviously. Very possible that you know something I don't on that, but I'd more than like to hear your explanation. ~On a side note, anyone know the size/weight ratios of the rx7 and 3kgt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 who's got the money to build a custom frame out of aluminum? and why would you when you could buy something a lot cheaper and a lot faster? the doors off an rx7 (which was also discontinued in the us due to problems with the engine blowing up, if you want to talk about engines falling apart), actually the only problems the rotory engines have is dumbasses thinking they can just throw on a boost controller without doing cooling mods, as the rotory's run extremely hot. do a good radiator and an intercooler upgrade and your fine. and actually the rx7 actually stopped production in the us because of tarrifs that the government started imposing on imported cars to help the lagging us auto industry. the rx7 continued life, as i said, in the japan untill last year. the reason awd makes the market smaller is because there werent other awd sports cars. people in america thought that sports cars had to be rwd, which isnt true. people know that with the awd drivetrain you lose more power, and lose top end as well, thats why people would rather spend either 4k less and buy a supra or 9k more and buy a vette, both of which are faster in the 1/4. i gotta run, but ill address the power to weight ratio later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optional187 Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 i really fail to see the point to this arguement anymore. i mean, the 3000gt is a VERY nice car, sports car, track car, drag car (with money), and good all around car. lets face it, if you had the will and the money you could make a ford festiva get down the 1/4 fast...of course you'd have to swap a good engine into that POS but still. point made? oh, and Here's the linky you wanted again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 nsx 290/3160 = .091772 rx7 250/2800 = .089286 3kgt 320/3800 = .084211 supra 320/3450 = .092754 gtr 280/3600 = .077778 evo 280/3086 = .090732 sti 280/3150 = .088899 silvia 250/2700 = .092593 270r 270/2700 = .100000 <-Nismo 270R Silvia my s14 320ish/2700 = .1185ish 320*.2 = 64 320-64 = 256 whp, me = 258.7whp the arguement is that you think the 3000gt vr-4 is a badass sports car, when it doesnt compete with anything in its class. ill say it again its a nice car, but not a drag/track car. haha then again maybe this is simply because i hate mitsubishi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Haha, point taken civicex95... oh, and thanks also for the link. This argument is getting kind of pointless.... except for the stuff on the rx7, we are both saying basically the same thing s14silvia. Thanks for the power/weight ratios also. It could be a little because you hate mitsu, but you are right in some respects too, whereas I've just been a fan of the car since I first saw one when I was about 10. Also, on the rx7 (lol, thought I was stopping...), wankels can be very diff. to tune if you are used to pushing pistons, but w/ adequate tuning and attention the risk of blowing your sh*t up is drastically reduced. BTW, as civicex95 was talking about fixing up a POS, I'm looking to maybe drop a new engine this summer w/ a turbo and some other fun stuff to burn rx7's if I can tune it right (which is when I'd be coming back to all you peeps). Maybe that stealth that some rich ass drives to school...... nah, couldn't disgrace the beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S14Silvia Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 haha rx7's are easy its those damn supras you gotta look out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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