Kicksome123 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 why does everyone dog on these cars. Most people tell me there really un-reliable, but they make a pretty good amount of hp. Dont worry any of yall im sticking to honda but I was just wondering about these cars. The DSM is the eagle talon TSi and the eclipse right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 guy i bought my turbo from went through 3, 2.0 DOHC talon engines whatever they are. i know they have 4 digit codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Eclipse/Talon 90-94 DOHC 4g63, 4g63t 95-99 420a, 4g63t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicksome123 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 like whats so bad about them, I was reading a DSM forum and seen the maintinence they require and my jaw dropped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphries Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 the only dsm i like is the older style like 95-2000 eclipses.. they are purty. i want one one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicksome123 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 They look really good, but I hate mitsubishis so much >.< Just dont want one.. ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Cole Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 n00b question: why are they called dsm's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compuvision02 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 It is either Diamond Star Motors, Dahmler Star Motors, or Damn Small Engines. Just kidding on the last one, but I think the first is correct, the middle is the answer if the first is wrong. The motors are notorious for crank walk and their transmissions usually take a crap. I just call Evolutions DSM's, owners sometimes get pissed. I'll be honest, they aren't unreliable, but they become unreliable when beaten and raced. The FRWD versions don't have as much transmission issues, obviously. I consider these cars unreliable, because the way I drive, sometimes, it would probably not take it well after a while. They are "cheap" to get going pretty fast, you can go 12's no problem with only a couple grand. Just like any AWD car, they are considered unreliable, because they are beaten on. People think they can handle getting launched to go in a straight line, but that is not really what they are for. That is how the transmissions go and that is why they are generally not covered on warranty for transmission work. They are nice cars, but the way they are driven make them to be considered unreliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicksome123 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 thanks for the info I diddnt know why they were called that either, I just heard someone say it and then I started callin them that. So there really not mitsubishi motors? there diamond star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compuvision02 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Well, DSM was involved with Mitsubishi until the third generation Eclipse. Only first and second generations are considered a DSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick B. Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 and the first gen motor is the most powerful, at least, thats what i hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compuvision02 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 From what I hear the Evolutions, or atleast the IX, have the block of a first generation and the head of a second generation; or vice versa. Supposedly each had their strengths and weaknesses and they combined them to make a "better" motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Diamond Star Motors operated between 1990 and 1998. All 3 of the Talon/Eclipse/Laser models were made in Normal, Illinois. They have a reputation of being unreliable, and having been around 2 of them now, one owned by me I have to say their reputation is well-deserved. My buddy bought his and it wasn't 6 months before he spun a bearing and had to completely rebuild his motor. Seems somebody, most likely the owner before him, beat the crap out of the car, and bashed the oil pan which in turn damaged the oil pick-up. Fast forward 2 years, and I decided to purchase my '96 Talon. BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER!!!!! The weekend I picked it up, almost didn't start when I was stranded 30+ miles from home. Battery tested ok so it must be the starter. Replaced it and still, hard to start. Replaced the battery and everything was fine. Stupid car parts people. Couple months later it started overheating, all indications were a thermostat. Replaced the thermo, still overheating. Got really pissed, and then one day it stopped overheating. Seems the thermo unstuck. Are you kidding me? So, driving home one night the damn thing just stops running. Won't restart. After a couple of mis diagnosis, seems the timing belt came off the cams. Haven't gotten around to figuring out exactly how yet. Whether the overheating caused the head to warp or gasket to blow thereby leaking coolant onto the timing belt and altering it. Or maybe the damn thing crankwalked, which if that's the case, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do. The belt isn't broke because after a little fiddling with it, it was back on the cams and turning them again. Now I need to pull the head and see what damage, if any, was done to the valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicksome123 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 Diamond Star Motors operated between 1990 and 1998. All 3 of the Talon/Eclipse/Laser models were made in Normal, Illinois. They have a reputation of being unreliable, and having been around 2 of them now, one owned by me I have to say their reputation is well-deserved. My buddy bought his and it wasn't 6 months before he spun a bearing and had to completely rebuild his motor. Seems somebody, most likely the owner before him, beat the crap out of the car, and bashed the oil pan which in turn damaged the oil pick-up. Fast forward 2 years, and I decided to purchase my '96 Talon. BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER!!!!! The weekend I picked it up, almost didn't start when I was stranded 30+ miles from home. Battery tested ok so it must be the starter. Replaced it and still, hard to start. Replaced the battery and everything was fine. Stupid car parts people. Couple months later it started overheating, all indications were a thermostat. Replaced the thermo, still overheating. Got really pissed, and then one day it stopped overheating. Seems the thermo unstuck. Are you kidding me? So, driving home one night the damn thing just stops running. Won't restart. After a couple of mis diagnosis, seems the timing belt came off the cams. Haven't gotten around to figuring out exactly how yet. Whether the overheating caused the head to warp or gasket to blow thereby leaking coolant onto the timing belt and altering it. Or maybe the damn thing crankwalked, which if that's the case, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do. The belt isn't broke because after a little fiddling with it, it was back on the cams and turning them again. Now I need to pull the head and see what damage, if any, was done to the valves. ouch, how much did you pay for the car from the begining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sohcVTEC-E Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Let me clear up some misconceptions. DSM=Diamond Star Motors. They include talon, eclipse and laser. The turboed ones come with the 4g63T motor... 1g's do not get crankwalk and the stock internals and block can handle +500 hp. 2g's have the weaker 7 bolt cranks and are very suceptible to crankwalk. The most imoportant thing to do is keep up with maintenance (TIMING BELT@60,000) and they really will be reliable. Oh and one can easily hit 12's with a 700 dollar budget. Trust me, my neighbor has a 2g that hits 12's. MBC, fuel pump, intake, solid UICP, exhaust, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, crushed 1g BOV and safc2... You're easily hitting low 12's. The biggest problems with the cars is the stupid timing belt snapping. They are interference engines and its really easy to destroy heads. When I get mine replaced I plan on getting the balance shaft eliminator kit because that helps the belt last longer My talon has a 16g turbo (smaller evo III turbo) 30,000 on longblock and 160k on body and trans. I destroyed the brand new throw out bearing because I didn't break it in. The car makes ass loads of torque running stock boost (10 lbs) with the bigger turbo. A friend got me safc2 for christmas! Woowowoowowoo I will just be using mine for getting from a to b... I'll just be trying to get from a to b quicker and quicker lol. My talon will probably never see strip time... I always feel scared beating the crap out of any car... It's never good for any car to see red line. Ask away... Edit: sounds like you crankwalked kastigir. Your fault for buying a 2g... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphries Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 what does crushed 1g BOV mean.. is the BOV crushed or is that a brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicksome123 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 I thought all Talon TSi were AWD I diddnt know they were FWD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Possibly, but the 1G is so f*cking ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I'm pretty sure everything was covered in this thread about DSM's. Here's a quick summary of the thread: -You spend more time fixing a DSM than you do driving one -Yes they are fast and can run good track times (if you can finish getting down the 1/4 mile) -DSM consists of any Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser AND MITSUBISHI GALANT VR-4 (very rare) from 1990 to 1998 -Each model came with either a 420A motor or a 4G63t (t stands for turbo) -The 4G63 came with a T25 turbo -Honda > DSM -1G DSM's do NOT have crankwalk. Supposedly the 93 and 94 models have rare occurances. The motor was more powerful BUT the ECU was very picky about power and modding -2G DSM's are more likely to have occurances of crankwalk. The motors are weaker because of smaller TB's, smaller oil journals (which is a theory behind crankwalk), and some other smaller things (i forget). But the ECU in 2G's were much more forgiving. Many DSM tuners actually put 2G sensors in 1G motors (good combo) -Finally Honda > DSM The End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphries Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 idk.. i just want an eclipse because they are pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicksome123 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 wtf is crankwalk anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sohcVTEC-E Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Crankwalk is when you get play in the crankshaft... Have you ever heard of shaft play in a turbo? Its the same thing as that but with the crankshaft... Very bad... If you literally crush a 1g dsm bov it is efficiant up to 26 lbs Mycarsux. You're spreading false info my brotha. Crankwalk happened because of mitsubishi's stupid design flaw in their crank bearings. You can get different size bearings for each crank journal to fix the problem. If you maintain your DSM, you will spend more time driving it... The 4g63 motors came with 13g (automatic) and 14b (mans trans) Upgrades would be T25, 16g or other garett hybrids and such. Its actually really easy to tune as well. Its just people are obsessed with VTAing (venting their blow off valve to the atmosphere) This makes it incredibly hard to tune unless you have a GM mass air flow translator setup. All you really need to tune if you recirc. is a datalogger and safc2. If you really want to get to the nitty gritty you can get a wideband and tune that way... The galant just used the mitsu engine but it was not produced by DSM. IMHO- Honda>DSM for gas milage and low maintenanceness but Honda<DSM for going fast and doing so for dirt cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I always feel scared beating the crap out of any car... It's never good for any car to see red line. I disagree. above red line is bad for your car. crankwalk is where your endplay gets shot in the ass, and your crank "walks" back and forth across the main bearings. endplay is usually set at .003 - .006. too tight, you cause excessive wear of thrust bearings, and too loose....you get crankwalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I'm not sure but I think you can get custom internal work to lessen and maybe even eliminate any threat of crankwalk. I read somewhere that some DSM tuning shops do it but its mad expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sohcVTEC-E Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 You can have new different size bearings put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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