mycarsux Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Has anyone ever milled, bored, polished, or ported a head and/or block before?? I've been trying to figure out what you really have to do and what exactly you mill on the head and stuff. Can someone clue me in? Links are appreciated if you don't wanna type a lot. Pretty pictures are always helpful too. And I wanna make this an interesting thread. Not like a one question one answer thing. Put on you thinking caps people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 what how they actually bore stuff out? 3 stone honing tools for honing and crosshatching. drill press with boring bits for boring an engine. for porting , pretty much a high class dremel tool. for milling the head and block , same as wood , a tool that planes a layer off. first honda engine i was involved in building ive talked about before , we planed the head and block , alot , lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolLesHonda Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I have ported a Domestic Head before with my cousins. We used an expensive dremel at first, and then cleaned it all up, and took it to a flowbench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 When you say "for milling the head and block" what parts of the head and block do you mill. And you use a dremel tool? That seems weird to me. Makes it sound like a low scale job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS John Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I thought you just sucked a 25 lb. bag of sand into your engine through the intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 negative on the sand , lol. they literally dremel the opening and chambers out , increasing the diameter of the runners . than , they gradually use finer grits to make smooth(polish). When you say "for milling the head and block" what parts of the head and block do you mill. And you use a dremel tool? That seems weird to me. Makes it sound like a low scale job. you mill the surface that the head sits on , top of block. this increases compression ratio. in say a stock D16Z6 though , you cant , cause factory the piston to deck clearance is 0.000 , lol , not much room for taking some off there. but you can plane the head , which will also increase compression ratio , same as milling block , but wont affect piston travel. BUT , valve relief becomes an issue than. porting is by no means a low scale job. the people that have experience is what your paying for there. if you were to try and port your own head , which you could do , you run the risk of grinding too much away , going through into other passages in the head. or simply making a head that flowed for crap. the people that do this , know exactly where and how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 I am so doing this. Next chance I get, I'm milling a block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 good luck with milling the block. as for port and polish, i did the d16z6 that is in my buddy's car. evidently i didn't do too bad cuz it made another 5hp and 3ft/lbs on the dyno. not bad for a back yard mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 When you say "for milling the head and block" what parts of the head and block do you mill. And you use a dremel tool? That seems weird to me. Makes it sound like a low scale job. no you use a vertical mill. a drill press that moves in an x, y, and z plane basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 no you use a vertical mill. a drill press that moves in an x, y, and z plane basically. I know what a vertical mill is, thanks though. I've used one a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 oh were you refering to the port work being done with the dremel? I was just confused. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Milling and boring are done by machine shops. Hone you can do yourself if you know what you're doing. Headwork should be left to the people who do it for a living. They don't use dremels. They use air powered grinders. You don't want a smooth/"polished" finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 It is basically an air powered dremel tho, I have one. oh but yes you do want a smooth finish. carbon is less likely to stick to a smooth finish, than a rough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 Milling and boring are done by machine shops. Hone you can do yourself if you know what you're doing. Why can't I do milling and boring myself? Ok, boring maybe I can't do, its a little harder. But milling a block seems easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Do you have the machine to do it with and the tools to check it? You don't want a smooth finish. Fuel will stick to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 I'm at a school with 2 full machine shops at my disposal. And what would I need to check it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 You don't want a smooth finish. Fuel will stick to it. stuff sticks to smooth surfaces? lol. kind of the opposite dont ya think. friction is what makes air as well as anything slow down. therefore the less friction the faster something moves. ie , the smoother the surface , the less friction air has passing through it. its physics. and physics is the same for everything , theres no exceptions. if there was no such thing as air(like in space per say) , than we could reach rediculous unheard speeds on earth , thousands of miles an hour literlly. we sand cars before painting them cause paint wont stick to smooth surfaces? sorry SSR but i dont see where your comming from telling me fuel sticks to smooth surfaces. if that was the case , noone would ever polish thier runners would they. please elaborate on where this theory comes from , im cursious as to why you think this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 I think its more of a cohesion/adhesion issue than friction. But idk, that just me assuming. Because fuel is really "moving" on the top of the block. Its just kinda sitting there because of the gasket. Your right with the physics and all but I think its a different application. I thought the other way too but SSR is pretty much God when it comes to this stuff so I'm not gonna question him. EDIT: or maybe he's just trying to fuk us all over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS John Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Definitely agree with cranny on this one from the way he explained it, although that's not to discredit SSR. I just would like to see some sources and proof cited in support of fuel sticking to a smooth passage. This thread and it's neighbor about flow are very interesting discussions. Two of the most intelligent I've seen on HF. It really opens up my eyes to how much there is to know about the internal combustion engine. I'm really looking forward to having a bit more free time to do some real research into all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 More research tells me that you want "Clean, smooth and flat. That’s what both mating surfaces have to be to not only seal the head gasket but to make it last." - Larry Carley The article im reading says that a somewhat rough surface is for cast iron blocks is ok because its cast iron. But with aluminum blocks today you want a much smoother and flatter surface. Its also talking about MLS (multi-layered steel) blocks. Idk what Honda blocks are. Someone tell me. You get smoother surfaces by just increasing cutting speeds and proper and better cutting tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 actually this is quite debated on whether or not to polish intake runners. you want a semi rough surface, cause it helps with mixing the fuel and air. on the other hand it slows the air. then you get into how semi turbulant flow dramatically decreases hp by the flow not being straight any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 well i mean , when fuel comes out of the injectors , its atomized. meaning it couldnt be any easier to mix with air given the fact it cant be broken down much further , if any. so as far as leaving walls rough to mix fuel and air , doesnt make much sense to me given the fact injectors atomize it. as far as older carborator setup go , and pyro im sure youl agree , fuel doesnt leave venturis(jets) atomized , the runners in carb intake mannys are designed to do both jobs , atomize fuel as best as possible , while still allowing as much as possible to flow. carbs literally spray a pinprick stream of fuel(well depending on the setup) into the airstream. im not trying to discredit SSR either , i just would like an article or somin explaining what hes talking about thats all. so we can all learn. if smoother is not better , ok fine , but why , lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 The article I was reading focused a lot on the kind of metal that you're working with. It said like the surface finish you want depends a lot on the block's or head's material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 thanks for posting the link though. our engine are alluminum so whats the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 i'll post link again: liiiiinnnkkkk Article says you should use PCD (polycrystilline diamond) cutting tools for aluminum. And it should be as smooth as possible because aluminum can slide all over a head gasket and not damage the gasket. They keep saying smooth is best, for everything. Overall the best equipment is: PCD dual flute cutting tool at high rpms with a slow feed rate (about 2 in/min @ 1000 rpms = 12 Ra (really good)). They never talk about the runners though I wish they did. Oh well. This requires more research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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