alex37211 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Okay, every time some one mentions that the ls/vtec or b20/vtec might have reliability issues, the quick response is "not if you do it the right way". My questions is; What is "the right way"? Are we talking about reinforcing the block? Upgrading rod bolts? Are head bolts necessary? I want to do this but I want the motor to be bullet-proof. What would be the weak point where failure could occur? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 the b20's have week sleeves. the b18b's aren't girdled like the b18c motors. If you want to build a "bullet proof" bottom end and block then sleeve the block what ever it may be, put in perfromace rods and bolts. There are arguments on how strong a stock crank is but if you want to build a high power car swap the crank also. to build a "bullet proof" motor you will be basically replace all the stock part with ones that are built to take the stress you are gong to put the motor through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 No such thing as bullet proof. Using stock parts... bore it .5mm new pistons/rings ARP rod bolts rods resized new bearings head studs (why get new headbolts when you can only use them once?) Tuned (no chips) Want it to make real power? B18C block resleeve and 85mm bore custom CP pistons (better flow from dome and relief design, less friction at the pin, lighter, low friction rings, less friction when you get them coated. raised pin) custom Cunningham rods (stronger and lighter than stock. long rod setup) ARP head studs, ARP main studs If you want it to make crazy power, have a big enough bank to not have to ask how much it will cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegger Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Why use the B18C block when you can do the exact same thing to the B20 block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 ^ thats basically what i said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 internal oiling, better maincap setup. 85mm stock sleeve b20 won't last long if used for racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVhorsemenmotorsports Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 internal oiling, better maincap setup. 85mm stock sleeve b20 won't last long if used for racing Oiling layout on the engine is the same other then the oil squirters but I would plug them up anyways as to avoid the extra weight of oil under the piston and oil getting past the ring and into the chamber causing detonation. You can purchase the main girdle for the b20 and have it doweled to fit correctly. You can post the stock sleeves which will help the strength. People say that b20's don't last long for racing with stock parts but I have built one for a customer of mine 4 years ago and is still running strong. 12.8 sec consistent. I ported the head and set it up with comp cams stage 2 cams and valvetrain. Skunk 2 intake manifold for the GSR head. I took the stock pistons and had the valve reliefs opened up to clear the valves. Stock rods, crank, bolts. Hondata tuned with 440cc injectors. All motor. Head bolts are stock also and you can use them more then once as long as they aren't stretched. Torque to Yield head bolts are a one time use only and are only used on bi-metal engines. And I didn't even post the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex37211 Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wow, 12.8 with stock internals after 4 years!?!? That's awesome. IVhorseman, what in your opinion is the weakest link in that motor you built? If it were to be driven hard for the next 5 years, where would you project a problem, if any, to occur? Rod bolts? Also, did you use stock rod bolts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Oiling is not the same. Other than having to add an external line, the passageways are not the same. Putting main caps on other than the ones that came on the engine, you will have to have it line honed. That will throw a lot of stuff off. Drag racing is a far cry from road racing. Clearances are different, specs are different, and road racers using a VTEC head are revving higher, for longer periods of time, and doing way more WOT lifts than a stock head drag setup. If you're thinking about using a stock bottom end, don't. The LS/B20 uses the same rod bolts as a D16 does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegger Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Who said anything about sleeves being worthless. You would sleeve the B18C, so why not save some cash, buy the B20 block and sleeve it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 internal oiling, better maincap setup. 85mm stock sleeve b20 won't last long if used for racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegger Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Okay i understand the maincap and oiling issues, but if you sleeve the block (non-oem) why wouldn't it hold up just as well? You said resleeving the C1 block is an option, so why no t just resleeve a cheaper block and save a couple bills toward something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Sleebing will hold up the same for either the block. The C1 is better to use due to oiling and the main caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelkou Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 mmmm b20vtec. mmmm torque... haha ive considered b20vtec at times, but i dont want to sleeve, i hear its spendy... and i want to eventually go boost i love NA, but around here, doesnt get the props it deserves. that and, for some reason hearing a turbo spool is just sexy, imo. (ever listen to a 24v cummins? mmm, love that noise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben. Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 If you boost, you won't have to worry about torque. Andddd Cummins/it's turbo is nothing like that of a Honda's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Are you really going to build you car to get props? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex37211 Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 Are you really going to build you car to get props? Wow. Everybody like props. But it's not what kind of motor you run that should be the determining factor of the props received. It's the numbers you put down in the 1320. And imo, if a N/A motor is keeping up with or beating a boosted setup in general, that deserves props and a half. Like overtime props. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben. Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Lolol do you know how much money has to go into an N/A setup to get it to compete with a turbo'd setup? Not to mention experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airjordan223 Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Lolol do you know how much money has to go into an N/A setup to get it to compete with a turbo'd setup? Not to mention experience? thast why its not worth it to go N/A. thats my opinion anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 N/A would be nice if it's striclt a DD but once you hit the track with a N/A DD it's all over and your wanting boost by the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVhorsemenmotorsports Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Sleebing will hold up the same for either the block. The C1 is better to use due to oiling and the main caps. it is actually easier to sleeve a B18c block then a B20. Either way you look at it the machine shop is doing the work and your paying them. As far as the main cap thing, If your building the block for performance use you are going to check the align hone and even have the job done to get better bearing crush. The oiling thing is only the squirters under the piston to cool them off, If your looking to cool the pistons off just put more fuel in it. The squirters add more weight to the piston as its moving. More weight the more energy needed to move it. Just put a vtec pump in it. To help the oiling radius the passages. If it were a road race motor I would upgrade to aftermarket rods due to the fact that you are running all out for a long period of time. You can post or add a block guard the sleeves for strength. The b20 will generate more torque then the b18c sleeved as it will have a little more then 35cc's displacement.(89mm stroke compared to 87.2mm) And even if i used a b18c block I still would add a secondary oil line to the head for extra oil to cool the springs and keep everything slippery. Reliability! In the engine i built i did use stock rod bolts and no block guard and no main cap girdle. Every engine built needs to be built for a purpose and the goals realistic. The only thing I wish I could have done was use those new b20 pistons with type r specs on then to bump the compression up. Its a factory piston but with a dome. Motor i built only has 9.8:1 compression. he drives it around on 87 and races on 91. Those new pistons if they were around when i built the motor i would have used them. The weakest link on those engines would be the sleeves and the rods. All depends on what your trying to accomplish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVhorsemenmotorsports Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 thast why its not worth it to go N/A. thats my opinion anyway well anybody today can just bolt a turbo and run the number in the quarter mile. To do it n/a style commands respect and pride that goes when you do all the research and hard work. I remember when turbo cars used to be all stripped out to run 12's now we can do that all motor and d/d. In the pro class turbo cars are not very consistent. they run from 7-13secs. All motor class now is now in the 9.30's-10.0 consistent every pass. Turbos are fun though, massive thrust. The cool thing about all motor is that no one will know what you have cause it's all inside when a turbo and all it's pipes are exposed. Plus you will have to deal with heat issues. There's give aways to either one but all motor in my book shows you did something. How good will it feel to smoke a turbo car on the motor? What would the turbo driver say when he gets beat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delsol209 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 n/a all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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