dd_biggy Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Hey all, was trying to decide on turbo'ing the f22 i have in my '90 accord lx now or swapping in a good h22a w/ 5sp manual tranny. I have an auto now, if that influences anything. Either way, gonna have to go stick. Local shop I talked to could do the swap cheap, around 2g total including all parts/labor. Need real advice here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carta79 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 IMO- I wouldn't waste the time or money in putting a turbo on a F22A1 engine (130-135hp). I would swap for USDM H22A4 (190hp), then turbo the H22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Unless you're going to be racing competitively, swap in an F22B1 with a manual (VTEC version) and turbo it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 See here's the thing though... if I do both a swap and turbo, I'd probably need to find a used turbo b/c I really only have money for one or the other, depending on how much I can find the f22b1 for... I'll look around. I'll probably only have around 2gs to use, do you think this'd be enough for the swap plus turbo? BTW, any good sites for engines would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 An F22B1 swap is under $500. A log style manifold will be around $200. A downpipe will be about $100-$150. A DSM turbo and accessories will be under $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBirdSucks Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 then you have engine management and such to jack up the price. boost controller, oil lines, random fittings......that stuff adds up. IMO if you do the swap and turbo for $2000 or less, it's not done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 You don't have to have an EMS just because you have a turbo. A swap and turbo can be done for under $2,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBirdSucks Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 and you'll either blow something up or run like crap or won't be able to run much boost at all. you can't just go slapping a turbo on a car and run it. it takes MUCH MUCH MORE than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Newsflash.... It won't run like crap, low boost settings can be tuned using a fuel/VTEC controller and boost controller. On the stock F22 internals, you can run up to 12psi from a T3/T4 (larger than DSM turbo). I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think you cna run big boost numbers on a stock engine, and I'm sure the poster is smart enough to figure he won't be able to swap, turbo, rods, pistons, and injectors for under $2,000. Yes, you can just bolt a turbo on and run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBirdSucks Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 you won't run as well as you can with an EMS. sure, you can tune the fuel and such with a V-AFC, but it won't be per lbs of boost. you'll either run lean or rich. if you do decide to do this the way superstreetrx7 is saying, please be sure to tell us how much you spent total and how it runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 hmmmmm, varying opinions. Sounds like the f22b1 turbo'd would be the best way to go so far. BTW superstreet, thanks for the confidence, as I don't see myself as a complete dumbass. I gotta play a little pool before I can afford the swap and such, but I will definitely let ya know how it runs, performs, etc. with whatever I end up doing. To clarify... f22b1 is the jdm accord running 160 horse right? Couldn't find much info on em, so if you have the stats, please share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 F22B1 - 94-97 USDM Accord EX. 2,156cc 8.8:1cr 130hp@5,300 139lb-ft@4,500 F22B1: $400 Drag manifold: $300 Drag downpipe: $200 DSM metal BOV: $50 DSM intercooler: $65 DSM (AWD) T25 (Garrett) turbo: $165 used Tial 35mm wastegate: $160 DSM 450cc injectors: $50 Apex'i VAFC: $290 DIY manual boost controller: $4 Misc. fittings: $100 (high guess) Apex'i turbo timer: $100 Total: $1,884 Might have missed a few things. And yes, you can tune it to run neither rich nor lean with a VAFC. Given you will need extra money for dyno time. Get it on the dyno with A/F readings, get your boost readings (you'll need a boost gauge) such as 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full, and cruise(daily driving, non-WOT) and adjust the fuel curve accordingly. Note: These prices are from quick searches and not necessarily the best deals out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 those prices are encouraging, I was checking some stuff out, actually found a t25 turbo off a 97 gsx w/ no shaftplay for 120. Anyways, quick question. My apologies if it seems self explanatory to you all, but... why switch from the f22a I have now to the f22b1? If I remember correctly, and I like to think that I do, my current engine puts out the same horsepower numbers. ~On another side note from one of the comments earlier, I am planning on doing engine internals later on, so I'm not only looking for inexpensive but for something that I can work with later. Thanks again thusfar fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 F22B1 - 94-97 USDM Accord EX. 2,156cc 8.8:1cr 130hp@5,300 139lb-ft@4,500 F22A1 - 90-93 USDM Accord 2,156cc 8.8:1cr 125hp@5,200 137lb-ft@4,000 1. The B1 is VTEC so you have better power throughout the RPM range. 2. The B1 is VTEC makes more power. 3. The A1 makes its power (though less) sooner. Since you are going to build it later on, the B1 is definitely the better choice. Once you build it and turn up the boost, you will need to get new motor mounts or else the stock ones will turn to soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBirdSucks Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 you forgot about oil lines and, various circle clamps, intercooler piping. oh, and what about welding and such. sure you can adjust the fuel curve with a V-AFC, but you can't adjust it per pound of boost. so, if you adjust it for full boost, anytime you aren't at full boost, you're dumping more fuel in(see: running rich), which could cause more problems. instead, you could save a little more and get a hondata s200 for boost. it's not that much more than an Apex'i V-AFC and has much more control over your fuel settings. I'm not trying to discourage you at all. I'm just saying if you're going to do something, do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Misc. fittings: $100 (high guess)There are your oil lines and etc. You don't have to adjust the fuel curve for full boost only. You can adjust it per the amount of boost. VAFC: $290 Hondata S200 w/boost: $495 + paying someone else to tune it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBirdSucks Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 actually, you CAN'T adjust fuel per PSI with a V-AFC. I ran into this problem when I wsa going to turbo the del Sol. I've done a lot of resreach on it and I'm going to believe the many people who've actually boosted cars and have boosted cars. also, I talked to a guy with a boosted civic who did run the V-AFC. he said he wishes he would've gone ahead and got an EMS because he runs rich. also talked to an SI owner with turbo and V-AFC and he said he runs rich too....not good for turbo. and you still have intercooler piping and welding to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I should have clarified there is a hack for the VAFC to adjust the fuel curve for the amount of boost. You don't enter the amount of boost, you get the boost reading, and adjust for it. Piping from home depot: $30 There is no welding required, it all bolts together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBirdSucks Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 OHH!! bolt on oil lines.....wait, those don't bolt on, those go onto fittings WELDED to the oil pan. does the down pipe have a flex pipe in it? if not, it'll crack and you'll have more problems. I wouldn't trust a hack job. just do it right the first time, or else you'll regret it later on down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Hack job? 50% of turbo'd Hondas are running "hack job" kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd_biggy Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 an additional q when talking about the engine swap from f22a1 to f22b1. I have a friend that could hook me up cheap for total internal work, cheap as in 1600 all said and done, rdy for some clean boost or all engine. Considering this work would definitely be down the road, does it really matter if I swap now or not if I am going to be changing out the pistons, rods, retainers, valve springs, etc? ~On getting the job "done right", I don't know that there is another way to have it done. So far as hack jobs go, if it works and doens't significantly affect the longevity of the engine or parts in conjunction w/ it, i.e. turbo, whatever, then it works for me. Just got my admissions taken today, so no worries. EDIT: why not just swap the f22b1 vtec head onto the f22a1 block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..SSR.. Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 You can just swap the head, but it will be worth the while just to swap the whole engine. Turboing it now will affect longevity (as in time before a rebuild) but if you are going to build the internals, don't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBirdSucks Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 you'd either have to have the block machined and drilled for oil flow or run more oil lines. it'd be easier and safer to just get the whole swap. whatever makes you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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