fifty9singlecab Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 My '90 Accord acts like it is starving for fuel at times for just about 15 seconds and you can push the gas peddle down and it will then be fine or you can let it miss and idle low for a few and it will be fine. Then when you drive it on down the road after it has straitened out the check engine light comes on and it runs fine. Some times the check engine light comes on and it doesn't do this. But the light never comes on until its being driven. Also the other day it failed to start for a few minutes. Could this be in the Main relay? Or do they just work or not? Thanks again for the wonderful help from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Checked the CEL yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifty9singlecab Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Whats that? And also where is that? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsahonda Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Whats that? And also where is that? Thanks! fifty9singlecab, Want to first mention that the afermarket distributor you referred me to has been in my car about a month now and is working fine. The install was pretty smooth except for finding manuevering room for the tools. It's always that way with cars. I got the timing set at a small shop the next day and so far so good. The Check Engine Light on your dash or CEL, for short. That light tells you that your cars computer has stored data that will possibly point to the problem. Your design is like my 93 and can make the CEL flash to tell you what code the computer has in it. First, pull your negative battery cable and leave it off for about 10 minutes to clear all the codes from the computer. Hook the cable back up and start the car and drive it until the CEL comes on. Then return home/wherever and shut the car off. Now go to the passeger side of your dashboard and look down under the dash over to the side and locate the small blue connector that is under there. If it's never been tapped, it probably still has tape on it. That is a diagnostic connector. You need to stick a folded paper clip or one of those tiny horseshoe shaped thingies that goes on the end of electric wires into the two holes on the end of that diagnostic connector so that the connector in each hole is connected to the other (jumped). Sometimes when you make that connection you will hear a click from the computer. Leave that connector jumped and then get back in the drivers seat and turn the ignition switch to the position just before actual ignition but do not actually start the car. If the computer has a code in it, the CEL will blink. As I recall you want to write down the number of short blinks and long blinks. When it pauses that is the end of the code, but it will repeat after the pause, so if you missed it the first time you can catch it on the second or third. I don't have a chart that tells you what code the blinks mean, but you will undoubtedly find one in this forum. You and I have the older type system so you have to make sure the codes you seek out are for your car. A shop manual will also have many of those codes in it. Unfortunately, those codes are not a rifle shot. The code might point to a particular system, though, to help you narrow down where the trouble is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsahonda Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Here's a list of codes that I had saved in a Word file a few years ago. These may or may not apply to your situation. The single digit codes will flash multiple short flashes. For example a code 4 would show 4 short flashes then pause and repeat. The double-digit codes will flash a sequence of short and long blinks then pause and repeat. For example, code 43 would be 4 long blinks and 3 short blinks, then pause and repeat. 0 Engine Control Module (ECM) 1 Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) 3 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP Sensor) 4 Crankshaft Position (CKP Sensor) 6 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT Sensor) 7 Throttle Position (TP Sensor) 8 Top Dead Center Position (TDC Sensor) 9 No. 1 Cylinder Position (CYP Sensor) 10 Intake Air Temperature (IAT Sensor) 13 Barometric Pressure (BARO Sensor) 14 Idle Air Control (IAC Valve) 15 Ignition Output Signal 16 Fuel Injector 17 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) 20 Electrical Load Detector (ELD) 21 Variable Valve Timing & Valve Lift Electronic Control Solenoid Valve (VTEC Solenoid Valve) 22 Variable Valve Timing & Valve Lift Electronic Control Pressure Switch (VTEC Pressure Switch) 23 Knock Sensor (KS) 30 A/T FI Signal A 31 A/T FI Signal B 41 Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Heater 43 Fuel Supply System Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 fifty9singlecab, Want to first mention that the afermarket distributor you referred me to has been in my car about a month now and is working fine. The install was pretty smooth except for finding manuevering room for the tools. It's always that way with cars. I got the timing set at a small shop the next day and so far so good. The Check Engine Light on your dash or CEL, for short. That light tells you that your cars computer has stored data that will possibly point to the problem. Your design is like my 93 and can make the CEL flash to tell you what code the computer has in it. First, pull your negative battery cable and leave it off for about 10 minutes to clear all the codes from the computer. Hook the cable back up and start the car and drive it until the CEL comes on. Then return home/wherever and shut the car off. Now go to the passeger side of your dashboard and look down under the dash over to the side and locate the small blue connector that is under there. If it's never been tapped, it probably still has tape on it. That is a diagnostic connector. You need to stick a folded paper clip or one of those tiny horseshoe shaped thingies that goes on the end of electric wires into the two holes on the end of that diagnostic connector so that the connector in each hole is connected to the other (jumped). Sometimes when you make that connection you will hear a click from the computer. Leave that connector jumped and then get back in the drivers seat and turn the ignition switch to the position just before actual ignition but do not actually start the car. If the computer has a code in it, the CEL will blink. As I recall you want to write down the number of short blinks and long blinks. When it pauses that is the end of the code, but it will repeat after the pause, so if you missed it the first time you can catch it on the second or third. I don't have a chart that tells you what code the blinks mean, but you will undoubtedly find one in this forum. You and I have the older type system so you have to make sure the codes you seek out are for your car. A shop manual will also have many of those codes in it. Unfortunately, those codes are not a rifle shot. The code might point to a particular system, though, to help you narrow down where the trouble is. Unless something is different from Accords to Civics, that connector shouldn't be jumped in a 90. It should be an OBD0 vehicle. That connector should only be to disable the ECU ignition timing advance, so you can set the base timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsahonda Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Unless something is different from Accords to Civics, that connector shouldn't be jumped in a 90. It should be an OBD0 vehicle. That connector should only be to disable the ECU ignition timing advance, so you can set the base timing. Mine is a 93, built about the same as 90,91 and 92 with the exact same diagnostic connector and I have jumped my connector 5 or 6 times since having the car and it never hurt anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsahonda Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 On page 6-3 of my Haynes Manual for 1990 through 1993 Honda Accord the procedure for bridging the diagnostic connector on those model Accords is shown. There is even a photograph of the guy sticking the paperclip into the holes. Simple and easy. No need to overcomplicate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifty9singlecab Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ok seems to be code #1 and code # 43. This seems like a story in itself. I think I will replace the O2 sensor first. Then if that doesn't work I will try to figure the fuel thing out. But several people say the O2 sensor has fixed theirs. Let me know if you know if I need to try anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsahonda Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ok seems to be code #1 and code # 43. This seems like a story in itself. I think I will replace the O2 sensor first. Then if that doesn't work I will try to figure the fuel thing out. But several people say the O2 sensor has fixed theirs. Let me know if you know if I need to try anything else. Hope that does it for you. As I recall you have a ton of miles on that car so needing O2 sounds about right. By the way, did you cut power (such as pulling the negative batt cable) so the computer clears out the codes before you drove the car and then checked the codes? YOu want to make sure one of those isn't an old code that has nothing to do with the current problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Mine is a 93, built about the same as 90,91 and 92 with the exact same diagnostic connector and I have jumped my connector 5 or 6 times since having the car and it never hurt anything. Then it is different than my old Civic was. That connector was only for jumping to disable the ECU timing advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifty9singlecab Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well this is a different honda than the other one. This is a 1990 the other one was a 1992. I sold the other one to a guy that thought it was worth more than I did. Now I have purchased this one. 1990 4 door, Power everything. It has 261,000 miles on it. And it looks great. It had the tow hooks in the front where it appears to have been towed behind an rv sometime in its life. So true runnung and driving miles are an unknown. Inside is light tan and is spotless. Outside is navy blue and is also spotless. But I purchased it knowing about this "I think" small problem. The only reason I don't think its the O2 sensor is because of it not starting the other day for a few minutes. And it sounded like it was out of gas. Besides the O2 sensor what do I try or look at. And I did undo the battery cable. Thanks again for all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsahonda Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well this is a different honda than the other one. This is a 1990 the other one was a 1992. I sold the other one to a guy that thought it was worth more than I did. Now I have purchased this one. 1990 4 door, Power everything. It has 261,000 miles on it. And it looks great. It had the tow hooks in the front where it appears to have been towed behind an rv sometime in its life. So true runnung and driving miles are an unknown. Inside is light tan and is spotless. Outside is navy blue and is also spotless. But I purchased it knowing about this "I think" small problem. The only reason I don't think its the O2 sensor is because of it not starting the other day for a few minutes. And it sounded like it was out of gas. Besides the O2 sensor what do I try or look at. And I did undo the battery cable. Thanks again for all the help! If I bought a high mileage Accord and the owner didn't hand me maintenance records showing what was done and when, I would start small and work my way up. Tune her up. Plugs, Wires, Cap, Rotor, PCV. Then, fuel filter, and onward and upward. Since the car might have been sitting a while, it could also have some old gas in it. Despite coming from plants and animals that lived millions and millions of years ago, dead dinasour has a shelf life once it is refined into gasoline. Put some hiqh quality fuel additive in it and start blowing that stuff out. If the car was owned by old people, then it almost certainly needs a good blow out. That said, 261,000 miles indicates it hasn't been resting in the garage. Speaking of blowing out, clean the throttle body housing. Then put in a good tank of 93 Octane. Don't if the car has been okay with lesser Octane. 93 will instantly make an unitiated Accord an addict. I run it in mine but sometimes think about adjusting the timing and going back to lower octane and living with less power but just can't convince myself to actually do it. I like the power. Timing Belt might also be a critical concern on that car. When was it done? If uncertain, take a look at the belt and if still uncertain, put one on it. Your whole good purchase could go sour if you end up severely damaging the engine in the car because the timing belt fails at high speed. How does the engine look? Greasy? Oil seeping out from the valve cover? Oil on your socket when you take out the plugs? If so, another nice tinkering job is to replace the valve cover gasket and the circular gaskets for the spark plug holes. That's a job to take your time with and do it right. If a mechanic does it for you have them adjust the valve clearance while they are in there. That dark blue with tan interior is a beautiful 4th Gen. Accord. Hopefully it will prove to be a good purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifty9singlecab Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well for starters it has had a complete tune up. New plugs, wires, complete dist. PCV, etc. And its had a new valve cover gasket and spark plug gaskets. The motor is fairly clean. No signs of leaky oil. I don't think the timing belt has been changed for a while if it ever has been. I wanted to fix this problem first then if the car does fine I will do that. It will cost $115.00 for the timing belt kit including water pump. And my mechanic wants $100.00 labor and that's worth the expense if it were to break. The code 43 says it my be a leaky injector. I checked it today and they are not leaking. I don't know what to try first. I guess I will clean the throttle body out good and add 93 octane. I really like this car and I hope it likes me enough to be good to my billfold. It's weird but it seems like when the check engine light does come on it runs better and stops the missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsahonda Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well for starters it has had a complete tune up. New plugs, wires, complete dist. PCV, etc. And its had a new valve cover gasket and spark plug gaskets. The motor is fairly clean. No signs of leaky oil. I don't think the timing belt has been changed for a while if it ever has been. I wanted to fix this problem first then if the car does fine I will do that. It will cost $115.00 for the timing belt kit including water pump. And my mechanic wants $100.00 labor and that's worth the expense if it were to break. The code 43 says it my be a leaky injector. I checked it today and they are not leaking. I don't know what to try first. I guess I will clean the throttle body out good and add 93 octane. I really like this car and I hope it likes me enough to be good to my billfold. It's weird but it seems like when the check engine light does come on it runs better and stops the missing. Once you deal with the o2 sensor, etc. you probably want to get the timing belt done. If you have access to the former owner you might want to ask them if they have ever done the timing belt. Who knows, they might have had one put on recently trying to get the car running better, which would not happen due to the other problems. The price for the TB charge is about right. A good mechanic will also check the critical oil seals (cam seal, etc.) while everything is torn apart and suggest to you that he replace the ones that need it. 261,000 miles is a lot of ground. You will need to give that engine some pampering to get it ready for a full load of daily driving, long trips, etc. Of course, it's a Honda, so you know if you take care of it, it will take care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill60 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 i have a 1990 ex, don't waste your time with the O2 sensor, i just replaced mine today and the check engine light came on after about 10 or so miles, i also had a code 43, the car is running good. back in sept. 08 i replaced the O2 sensor suspecting that was the problem, and replaced it again today for one the sensor was a warrenty item and two i wasn't sure what else to do, thats why i'm on this site today and replying to you. i hope its not to late cause there not cheap. i may have put only a 2k on the car (not my primary car). good luck i'll be looking for answers myself. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 i have a 1990 ex, don't waste your time with the O2 sensor, i just replaced mine today and the check engine light came on after about 10 or so miles, i also had a code 43, the car is running good. back in sept. 08 i replaced the O2 sensor suspecting that was the problem, and replaced it again today for one the sensor was a warrenty item and two i wasn't sure what else to do, thats why i'm on this site today and replying to you. i hope its not to late cause there not cheap. i may have put only a 2k on the car (not my primary car). good luck i'll be looking for answers myself. Phill Why would you replace something, without first finding out exactly what was wrong? And yes, O2 sensors for older Hondas are dirt cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill60 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 whats dirt cheap to you? my Bosch O2 sensor cost $55 after tax , and like i said i changed it again cause i could without expense to me, i just wanted to eliminate that possibility since i had not had the same problem as the guy above. and by the way why don't you give add some troubleshooting advice if you know anything instead of useless information Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 whats dirt cheap to you? my Bosch O2 sensor cost $55 after tax , and like i said i changed it again cause i could without expense to me, i just wanted to eliminate that possibility since i had not had the same problem as the guy above. and by the way why don't you give add some troubleshooting advice if you know anything instead of useless information Phill Firstly, f*ck off. I've given helpful information in this thread, like saying find out what's wrong before randomly replacing parts. Second, why are you using a Bosch sensor, is your car made by Germans? Third, you've given zero information as to what your problem is, what is there to troubleshoot? Fourth, I repeat...f*ck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtlehead Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Unless something is different from Accords to Civics, that connector shouldn't be jumped in a 90. It should be an OBD0 vehicle. That connector should only be to disable the ECU ignition timing advance, so you can set the base timing. Yup, the service connector on Accords (90-95) is to be jumped in order to pull the code(s), thus OBDI. 96+ is OBDII, scan tool needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtlehead Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 whats dirt cheap to you? my Bosch O2 sensor cost $55 after tax , and like i said i changed it again cause i could without expense to me, i just wanted to eliminate that possibility since i had not had the same problem as the guy above. and by the way why don't you give add some troubleshooting advice if you know anything instead of useless information Phill Not going to get in the middle of the despute, but if you swapped out an aftermarket O2 sensor for a factory one "hoping" it was the problem, then send me the used one. I bet it will out last the aftermarket one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.