Col Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I have finally found a combination of fixed ball joints and a non-snowy road to test my car on, and it doesn't seem to accelerate properly (maybe this is why I was unhappy with it before). I timed the 0-60 at approx 9 to 10 seconds - the book figure is 7.5. The car has new low-resistance sports leads (tested), 3 month old Bosch +4s, new fuel filter, new AEM SRS, new distributor cap and rotor. None of these things made the car run worse when fitted. Can anyone give any ideas of where I should look first for the cause? I am thinking: 1. Timing, 2. plugs (I recall someone not liking +4s), 3. sticky EGR. Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 platinum +4's really arent designed for our cars. and your car will most likely run better with even NGK G powers in it. exhaust really old? catalytic converter could be getting plugged up. or even if exhaust is leaking will affect performance in the negative category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 platinum +4's really arent designed for our cars. and your car will most likely run better with even NGK G powers in it. exhaust really old? catalytic converter could be getting plugged up. or even if exhaust is leaking will affect performance in the negative category. Thanks, I guess that the first step is to take out the +4s. What is the best type to use? Some days the car feels better than others with the Bosch, and I guess that incorrect plugs could give intermittent results. If that is the reason then it's annoying that Bosch suggest they work for that car. Oh well, they have a money back guarantee if new plugs work better. I have NGK iridiums in my Mazda which work better than the OEMs, but again are they right for the Honda? I don't see, hear or feel any leaks in the exhaust, but I think it is stock from '98. Are there any simple tests to see if the cat is blocked? Cheers, Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willthiswork89 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 take the egr off lol, it doesnt do anything for you besides make your exaust cleaner, youll gain some horse power. check your compression? mine was 180 each cylinder. check your fuel delivery, bumping your spark and not your fuel definantly will adversadly effect that. fool around and see what you can do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 NGK iridiums are ok for your honda. dont put any other plug than NGK in your hondas. thats my opinion anyways. hondas as well. bosch is not performance plug at all , i shouold say platinum , long lasting thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 NGKs or Nippondensos for plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 NGK iridiums are ok for your honda. dont put any other plug than NGK in your hondas. thats my opinion anyways. hondas as well. bosch is not performance plug at all , i shouold say platinum , long lasting thats all. Okay, I just got the Iridiums - I presume that they are going to be at least as good as the Gs? It's dark and snowy, maybe I can wait until tomorrow to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typeSH Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I agree with cranny, the NGK's are probably the best choice for plugs-the plat +4's are trash. Have you had a chance to try it out on a dry road yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I agree with cranny, the NGK's are probably the best choice for plugs-the plat +4's are trash. Have you had a chance to try it out on a dry road yet? It was snowing last night and -11C this morning. It feels a more responsive, but the problem with the Prelude is that it's slow unless you really give it some stick. The only real measure I have is to approximate the 0-60 time, and that will have to wait until I can get better grip. For sure the NGKs are better though, thanks for the Bosch advice (and sorry for ignoring it the first time Kastigir). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 The car does seem better with the NGKs in, but it's still not 100%. I guess I'll never know what it is without chucking more money into the cat and other things. I'll get the timing checked when I put in it for an oil flush next month. Exhaust can wait until I have some more money. Is there anything else that I may have missed? Cheers for your help peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonkid Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I assume you give it all it can handle when you drive it... Lude's are tough cars... they weren't OVERLY fast to begin with... Their reputation is more than they're worth.. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 I assume you give it all it can handle when you drive it... Lude's are tough cars... they weren't OVERLY fast to begin with... Their reputation is more than they're worth.. IMO You can make the assumption that I am giving it everything when evaluating the performance I know the Prelude isn't a fast car, but it's not slow either. I find it annoying that mine doesn't respond well on the odd occasion when I do give it stick. At first I thought it was the model, now I realise it's just because it isn't doing what it's supposed to. Oh well, when I do work out what is up then it will be like having a new car. Edit: Is it worth running something like STP injection cleaner with the gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastigir Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Seriously, I think you expected more out of this car than it's capable of. Sell it, find what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Seriously, I think you expected more out of this car than it's capable of. Sell it, find what you want. Please don't don't start that again. What I am expecting is for the car to be what it is supposed to be. Is that unreasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 no its not. what are your syptoms? you cant just say oh its not working right. why do you beleve its not? whats it doing under full throttle? does it idle rough? the last time or 2 times the car was worked on for anything , what was done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 no its not. what are your syptoms? you cant just say oh its not working right. why do you beleve its not? whats it doing under full throttle? does it idle rough? the last time or 2 times the car was worked on for anything , what was done? The Prelude is capable of hitting 60 in 7.5 secs. Before losing the +4s it was taking over 10. Now it's quicker, I can get it to about 9ish. The difference in feel between a 9s car one that can hit 60 in 7.5s is big. The symptoms are simple - floor it and it feels as if it's struggling, maybe as though it's being starved of something. Could be a fuel supply problem, exhaust efficiency, bad timing, air intake or anything like that. Maybe the engine is worn or a sensor is faulty, I don't know. On rare occasions it is quicker for a short period - so maybe the problem is a blockage somewhere that is sometimes relieved, and this also shows me that the car does have better performance hiding somewhere. Even allowing for the weather, my driving ability and the tyres it's measurable that the car is underperforming. The problem is that it's not easy for me to work out why. If I have to replace something that's fine - but it's an expensive car to replace each individual component just to hope I get lucky. Edit: The car has never been running well since I have it. I bought it in need of a service and hoped that would get it up to scratch. Replaced plugs (NGK Plat), leads (MSD I think, measurable max 100ohms resistance), dist cap and arm, oil + fuel filter, added new AEM SRS, had valve gasket cover replaced. Timing was not touched though. I can't remember the compression figures, but it was checked out for good compression before I bought it. Edit 2: Idle is around 800 and seems smooth to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 has timing belt ever been replaced? if its real old and stretched , could be killing your power. has the valves ever been adjusted? i suggest you clean your EGR ports first off. sounds like it idles ok. does it ever surge on you? feel like the gas is still being pushed sometimes even though you just let off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 has timing belt ever been replaced? if its real old and stretched , could be killing your power. has the valves ever been adjusted? i suggest you clean your EGR ports first off. sounds like it idles ok. does it ever surge on you? feel like the gas is still being pushed sometimes even though you just let off? * The timing belt was changed by Honda at around 90k, the car has now done 140k. It doesn't look as if it needs replacing. * No valve adjustment has been done - what is this and how would I get it done? * EGR ports - I know that these can create problems, I will look this up and give it a go. I presume that this is something I can do myself? * No surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 yes you can clean EGR yourself. google it or search forums. valve adjustment is easy as well , but if you havent done it before , dont. other than that dude , if you got no engine light , i dont know what to tell you. sounds like youve replaced everything near. could be an O2 sensor i guess , have many times seen that being the culprit with no engine light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 yes you can clean EGR yourself. google it or search forums. valve adjustment is easy as well , but if you havent done it before , dont. other than that dude , if you got no engine light , i dont know what to tell you. sounds like youve replaced everything near. could be an O2 sensor i guess , have many times seen that being the culprit with no engine light. Thanks Cranny. I also spoke with a collegue who likes to play with his Integra (read what you want into that!), and suggested de-carbing the, um, I think he said valves. With this in mind, would it be reasonable to do things as follows: 1. Clean the EGR. 2. Whilst I get the oil flushed (in a couple of weeks), have the (non-Honda) garage flush the "um, I think valves" and make any valve adjustments as necessary. Also use this oportunity to give the car a tune up, as it may not have had one for a while. 3. If this doesn't help, have the mechanic check the O2 sensor (or is that a DYI job?). 4. Come back here and ask Cranny for more advice! Once again, thanks for trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 you can check the O2 sensor yourself with instructions and a multimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 you can check the O2 sensor yourself with instructions and a multimeter. I read some instructions on this. There were two methods, the first using a simple DVOM (forget it!) and the second using a multimeter recording high, low and average readings from the sensor. Is this what you mean? If I am on the same wavelength as you, then the following must be what I am looking for: The average mV should be 450-550. The range should vary from at least 300 to 600mV, and from as low as 100 to a high of 900. If the range is not large enough or the bias is high or low, then the sensor is faulty. The voltage should also oscilate around the mid point several time per second, otherwise it is considered to be "lazy". I also understand about disconnecting an injector to test the lean reaction of the sensor - but how do I get it to run rich? The instructions mentioned adding propane to the engine, but I don't know how to do that. This is presuming that I know what to stick the DMM onto in the first place! Are these usually a cheap part to replace? Next question - where is the EGR? Do I just pull it off and clean it? Are they any gaskets which need to be replaced, or is this really as simple as I just made it sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 Just a little update... I took the car into a garage near work today to have the oil flushed, timing checked and EGR ports cleaned. Apparently flushing was a good idea because the old oil was full of crap. The timing was fine, but the EGR was pretty clogged. On the way home the car felt a little quicker. I used it this evening for a small commute and it felt better still. I managed to hit an empty straight road to time a 0-60... and it came in below 8 seconds as it is supposed to! Thanks Cranny et al for all of your help, hopefully that has nailed the problem with the car Of course, now that I have my first combination of a dry road, positive temperature (I thought it was a myth in Calgary!) AND a faster car, I discover that I need stiffer shocks and less sticky brake calipers... but they are projects I can save for later as the car is now in a good shape as it is. Let's see if I enjoy it now Kastigir Edit: It's a different car this morning than to what it was previously. It doesn't have the feeling that something is restricting acceleration. This is more like what I expected from this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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