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Accord no start/ idle problem


donsrods

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New to the forum, I normally play with hot rods, but have a problem with my daily driver 1994 Honda Accord LX 4 cylinder. I did a search on here, but didn't find the same problem, so please forgive me if this has been covered before.

 

Problem started a couple months ago, the idle when cold was very erratic.........it would vary from 1500 down to maybe 800 or so. It would surge back and forth between normal rpms and rpms that sounded like it would stall, but it didn't. It was about a second or two between surges, and if I were driving and let off the gas the car would act like you put the brakes on for a moment (5 speed car). Once it went a block or so it was fine and ran normally.

 

Then I started having a no-start problem. It would crank fine but not fire. This only happened once out of maybe every 10 times or so, and I thought it was related to damp weather because we were having a lot of rain during that time, but now I'm not sure. The odd part is, if I go back later (sometimes only a few minutes later) it will start fine. I never know when it is going to happen. Sometimes I can keep cranking it and it will eventually fire. The car has never stalled or quit running once it was running.

 

I have heard something about ICU in the distributor, but not sure if that gives these symptoms. Thanks for any help you can give. Oh, it has 160,000 on the clock, so it is barely broken in. LOL

 

Don

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Don,

 

It sounds to my like you may have two different situations going on here.

 

As far as the starting goes there are several common problems with Honda's of higher mileage that can cause what you are describing. 1. If it is happening on a hot day and the interior of the car is really hot then I would lean towards the PGM-FI main relay. 2. If it happens whether is it cold or hot then I would be looking at the electrical portion of the ignition switch (not part of the key cylinder, thus you would not need a new key). Sometimes if it is the switch while you are cranking it if you jiggle the key it will act like it wants to fire and often times will. If that is the case then I would look there. Either way both the PGM-FI main relay and the electrical portion of the ignition switch are "disposable" wear and tear items, thus if you have the money I would suggest doing both given the mileage on your car. Other then that there is the potential that the ignitor is beginning to fail (also common with a car the age of yours). I would suggest replacing the ignitor with a known good one from another car. The ignitor should be the same for the 90 through 97 Accords and I just replaced a 99 Civics with one from a 95 Accord (same part), so you don't have to get an Accord part necessicarily for your car. If you find one that is the same part then throw it in. It is located in the distributor and only takes a couple of minutes to replace.

 

As far as it irregular idle goes it could be something to do with the IACV. I would remove the air intake hose, and with the car running and working the throtle manually (to keep the car runnning) spray some throtle body cleaner into the IACV port (should be either round or square and located in the throtle body before the throttle plate.

 

A couple of other basic things that can cause the idle issue are the PCV is clogged, weak coil pack, fuel delivery, vacuum leak, etc. BUT, if the tac single from the ignitor is weak then that will cause a weak spark and can cause a rough idle, thus it could be the the ignitor is causing both issues.

 

I wish I could say your fix is simple (and it may well be), but the problem with the internet is that we can't physically put our hands on the car to properly diagnos the situation. I think these are some good starting points for you, but look at them as two seperate issues and try and fix the starting first.

 

I agree the car is barely broken in and would certainly try to diagnos the issue.

 

Best of luck and post back with your findings so that we might be able to help you more.

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Don,

 

It sounds to my like you may have two different situations going on here.

 

As far as the starting goes there are several common problems with Honda's of higher mileage that can cause what you are describing. 1. If it is happening on a hot day and the interior of the car is really hot then I would lean towards the PGM-FI main relay. 2. If it happens whether is it cold or hot then I would be looking at the electrical portion of the ignition switch (not part of the key cylinder, thus you would not need a new key). Sometimes if it is the switch while you are cranking it if you jiggle the key it will act like it wants to fire and often times will. If that is the case then I would look there. Either way both the PGM-FI main relay and the electrical portion of the ignition switch are "disposable" wear and tear items, thus if you have the money I would suggest doing both given the mileage on your car. Other then that there is the potential that the ignitor is beginning to fail (also common with a car the age of yours). I would suggest replacing the ignitor with a known good one from another car. The ignitor should be the same for the 90 through 97 Accords and I just replaced a 99 Civics with one from a 95 Accord (same part), so you don't have to get an Accord part necessicarily for your car. If you find one that is the same part then throw it in. It is located in the distributor and only takes a couple of minutes to replace.

 

As far as it irregular idle goes it could be something to do with the IACV. I would remove the air intake hose, and with the car running and working the throtle manually (to keep the car runnning) spray some throtle body cleaner into the IACV port (should be either round or square and located in the throtle body before the throttle plate.

 

A couple of other basic things that can cause the idle issue are the PCV is clogged, weak coil pack, fuel delivery, vacuum leak, etc. BUT, if the tac single from the ignitor is weak then that will cause a weak spark and can cause a rough idle, thus it could be the the ignitor is causing both issues.

 

I wish I could say your fix is simple (and it may well be), but the problem with the internet is that we can't physically put our hands on the car to properly diagnos the situation. I think these are some good starting points for you, but look at them as two seperate issues and try and fix the starting first.

 

I agree the car is barely broken in and would certainly try to diagnos the issue.

 

Best of luck and post back with your findings so that we might be able to help you more.

 

 

TH: I REALLY appreciate the detailed / prompt response. You have given me some very good things to look at.

 

As for the ignition switch, my Son owned the car before me and when he bought a new car I didn't want to let this one out of the family as it was such a good car. Anyway, about 4 years ago he had a situation where the car would not crank at all. He's a hot rodder like me, so he finally installed a toggle switch under the dash that he wired into the circuit to trigger the starter. For some reason the "start" function on the original switch went out, but the "ignition" portion was ok. To start it we would turn the key to "on" and then hit the toggle switch to crank the engine. It worked fine for all these years, and I also liked the theft protection aspect, so we left it as is.

 

Perhaps now the "Ignition" portion of the original switch has gone out, as you have described. I have tried jiggling the key while cranking and also turning it from off to on while cranking, and that didn't help. One thing I have noticed is that the no start thing seems to happen when the car has been sitting, like overnight. It has never happened once the car is running and I am out running errands or whatever.

 

Sorry for the lengthy posts, but I wanted to give you as much info as possible, and I know what you mean about diagnosing over the internet. I am on some hot rod forums and try to help other guys as much as possible, but there is only so much you can do without having your hands right on the car. But you have been very helpful with some areas that I will look at, and will also do the spray routine you outlined. I can't thank you enough and will post back after I try them so others who are having a similar problem will know what I found out. It sounds to me like you know these cars very well!

 

Don

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TH: I REALLY appreciate the detailed / prompt response. You have given me some very good things to look at.

 

As for the ignition switch, my Son owned the car before me and when he bought a new car I didn't want to let this one out of the family as it was such a good car. Anyway, about 4 years ago he had a situation where the car would not crank at all. He's a hot rodder like me, so he finally installed a toggle switch under the dash that he wired into the circuit to trigger the starter. For some reason the "start" function on the original switch went out, but the "ignition" portion was ok. To start it we would turn the key to "on" and then hit the toggle switch to crank the engine. It worked fine for all these years, and I also liked the theft protection aspect, so we left it as is.

 

Perhaps now the "Ignition" portion of the original switch has gone out, as you have described. I have tried jiggling the key while cranking and also turning it from off to on while cranking, and that didn't help. One thing I have noticed is that the no start thing seems to happen when the car has been sitting, like overnight. It has never happened once the car is running and I am out running errands or whatever.

 

Sorry for the lengthy posts, but I wanted to give you as much info as possible, and I know what you mean about diagnosing over the internet. I am on some hot rod forums and try to help other guys as much as possible, but there is only so much you can do without having your hands right on the car. But you have been very helpful with some areas that I will look at, and will also do the spray routine you outlined. I can't thank you enough and will post back after I try them so others who are having a similar problem will know what I found out. It sounds to me like you know these cars very well!

 

Don

 

 

Haha, as a follow up, today I decided to try to start my Honda again (a couple days ago it wouldn't fire up) and it started like a brand new car. I used it all day and it restarted each time like it should. I am going to do the things you suggested this weekend, but I just thought it was humorous that the car is now starting and running ok. Even the idle was ok when it was cold. Maybe we scared it. LOL

 

Don

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  • 2 months later...

Haha, as a follow up, today I decided to try to start my Honda again (a couple days ago it wouldn't fire up) and it started like a brand new car. I used it all day and it restarted each time like it should. I am going to do the things you suggested this weekend, but I just thought it was humorous that the car is now starting and running ok. Even the idle was ok when it was cold. Maybe we scared it. LOL

 

Don

 

 

Well, since I last posted my problems, the car has been starting fine. I found out that if I wait until I hear the fuel pump cycle and shut off it will start immediately. But if I rush it and turn the key to start immediately after getting in, it sometimes won't. So I just lived with it that way and had no more "no start" issues.

 

Then I started having a new problem. I pulled out from a light one day and the check engine light came on and the engine would cut out over about 2500 rpms. I had to limp into a shopping center. I opened the hood and saw nothing, and when I restarted the car the light was out and it ran fine..........except now the a/c was blowing warm. I finally found that all the freon had escaped and I theorized it had flooded the engine compartment with fumes, upsetting some sensors. I found the Shrader valve leaking, replaced it, and recharged the system. A week later the same running issue occurred, but the freon didn't leak out this time.

 

Finally took it to a good mechanic I know and he replaced the "ISC Motor" ($ 350 part) that he said was upsetting the computer. Car was fine for a few days and today it did the very same thing. As soon as the check engine light came on the motor started sputtering and cutting out. I have noticed this happens mostly during the heat of the day (99 degrees here in Florida today) so I think something is heating up. When it happened today I shut it off at the store, and when I came back out the engine light was out and it ran fine all the way home.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. You all were very helpful the last time, which I appreciated very much.

 

Don

 

Oh, I also changed out the main relay a week or so ago and the car has been starting even better than it had.

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