Health care plan

[lceah]

^it's all about more government control over what we do...they are NOT our parents!!

 

Not even my parents control my life...

[Velocifero]

I think its a nice to idea to think over it.Its so nice of you at least you people are thinking about health .I'm totally agree with you what you have said.

GTFO of here spammer.

[Tubbith]

 

 

people abuse the healthcare right now.. they have it all paid for.. and get rides to the hospital for no damn reason.. most of them get followed up there but people who could DRIVE them.. it doesnt help them get seen any faster but they are f'in stupid and lazy.. and for anyone whos had to pay for an ambulance ride knows it aint cheap.. when people actually have to pay for crap themselves they hopefully will quit abusing the system and wasting money.. (wasting tax money actually).. and i dont see the huge deal.. if you have a full time job and dont sit around on your ass on welfare then you should have insurance anyway.. if all else fails the military is always hiring and will hire damn near anyone

So, its ok for the government to FORCE me to buy something from a private citizen/company? You do realize that the same people who get the rides to the hospital when they dont need them, usually give fake names at the er and then dont pay the bill. Under this new plan, we get a raise in premiums as well as paying for the people who dont want to pay for themselves.

 

the seatbelt thing comes from safety.. whoever says 'well there are wrecks that not wearing a seatbelt has saved the person' its bs.. its so rare its crazy.. its easier and safer(less time on the side of the road) for the fire dept. cops and EMTs to put you in an ambulance and take you to the hospital and tow the car then do all the someone got killed paper work and to clean that crap up

 

 

nothing the government does will be perfect but there are reasons for doing it

Again.... why does the government get to tell me what i need to do. I am a grown man. I can make the decision to how i want to do things in my life. If i want to go through the damn windshield, it is my choice to do so.

 

Personal responsibility goes a long way. Too bad a lot of people these days think it is the governments job take care of them.

[Xeryon]

Ultimately, the FEDERAL governments job should come down to one thing and one thing only: direct the collective effort of all the states to make sure that no one, foreign or domestic, takes advantage of the liberties of the individual citizen. This would be, and not much more: common defense, common sense regulation on business and industry, foreign policy, and education. Done. Anything else should be the administration of the state or the local government as the local populace sees fit.

[lceah]

^that was very libertarian and you did say you are mostly libertarian...

[Xeryon]

^that was very libertarian and you did say you are mostly libertarian...

 

With a healthy dose of environmentalist Green thrown in just for fun. But I think getting our heads out of our asses and getting on with not destroying our homeworld should be what everyone already wants to do and not rely on the government to get people in line.

[lceah]

^nice

 

Soon everyone will drive completely electric cars...

 

but then I think the battery in those cars and replacing the batter is very harmful to the environment too!

[Xeryon]

Most batteries can be reused or recycled. I am also a big proponent of having my pollution contained in one small object stacked up in a salvage/recycling yard rather then have it airborne throughout my city and I breathe it in every day. Same goes for nuclear power. Sure the fuel rods are a mess to deal with, but we are talking about one small concentrated mess to deal with as opposed to polluting the air of the entire countryside with a coal plant.

[cmgogo]

^^^^ he speaks troof on nukes. Id love to see more nuke plants, but everyone is too scared that it will melt down. Sad part is there are more than 430 plants world wide, with 105 of them here, and with more on the way, yet people are still paranoid of them. I would rather live 5 miles from a nuke plant than 5 miles from a coal plant anyday.

[Xeryon]

I grew up less then 5 miles from a nuke plant. I have two ears, two eyes and one heart. No additional appendages or anything weird. It didn't smell, it wasn't noisy and it left no dust or residue on the house or cars. I would gladly invite the electric company to build a new one in my backyard if there was enough room and the site desirable.

 

The argument that we have no solution for disposal of the fuel is irrelevant. We have no solution for the air pollution that coal plants produce either. Everyone is touting 'clean coal' yet there is not one clean coal plant in use, being built or even being planned in the USA. I would be all for clean coal production if they would actually do it. So far clean coal is just a tool for political posturing. Clean coal plants are not viable financially and no one wants a coal plant built anywhere near them, clean or otherwise. So we end up at an impasse: no clean coal cause it is expensive and is still dirty, no nuclear because it is marginally more dangerous and makes concentrated pollution, no wind cause it's slightly more expensive, no solar cause the most efficient parts of the country are the farthest away from the population that needs it and it is also more expensive.

 

 

Someone better pick what disadvantage they can live with cause I'm going apesh!t if rolling blackouts interfere with my HF time.

[lceah]

^nice!! True...

[illaaf]

^how many times did Obama say during his campaign that tv reporters could report on what's going on during the talks in congress? at least 4 times that I remember!

 

Did he keep his promise or did he "close the doors" so no one would know? ya he closed the doors!

 

Obama had to have the closed door meetings. At first he was trying to be transparent. Everything was done in public view. The problem became that reports started to report and talking heads like Rush Limbaugh took what was going on and misinterpreted it to the American public.

 

Healthcare reform in this case isn't great. The drug companies and insurance lobby have too much power. It will be better in the long run. Anything has to be better then the system they have now which is feast or famine.

[illaaf]

I grew up less then 5 miles from a nuke plant. I have two ears, two eyes and one heart. No additional appendages or anything weird. It didn't smell, it wasn't noisy and it left no dust or residue on the house or cars. I would gladly invite the electric company to build a new one in my backyard if there was enough room and the site desirable.

 

The argument that we have no solution for disposal of the fuel is irrelevant. We have no solution for the air pollution that coal plants produce either. Everyone is touting 'clean coal' yet there is not one clean coal plant in use, being built or even being planned in the USA. I would be all for clean coal production if they would actually do it. So far clean coal is just a tool for political posturing. Clean coal plants are not viable financially and no one wants a coal plant built anywhere near them, clean or otherwise. So we end up at an impasse: no clean coal cause it is expensive and is still dirty, no nuclear because it is marginally more dangerous and makes concentrated pollution, no wind cause it's slightly more expensive, no solar cause the most efficient parts of the country are the farthest away from the population that needs it and it is also more expensive.

 

 

Someone better pick what disadvantage they can live with cause I'm going apesh!t if rolling blackouts interfere with my HF time.

 

Wind is not more expensive. The problem with wind is the NIMBY philospy. Meaning "Not In My Back Yard". The places that would be best for placing turbines are in high end luxary locations. For years in Mass they have been trying to place windmills off Cape Cod. The issue was always the Kennedy's who are all for Green Energy, but don't want their views obstructed.

 

See when it comes to environment most people are hypocrites.

 

Also on the nuclear energy. Over the last 20 or so years, the technology has gotten so much better that it is almost 100% safe. The issue is with two major meltdowns in the world, people have a stigma about it. They use Nuclear power every place else in the world, but the US is too afraid and again no one wants a reactor in their back yard.

[illaaf]

Most batteries can be reused or recycled. I am also a big proponent of having my pollution contained in one small object stacked up in a salvage/recycling yard rather then have it airborne throughout my city and I breathe it in every day. Same goes for nuclear power. Sure the fuel rods are a mess to deal with, but we are talking about one small concentrated mess to deal with as opposed to polluting the air of the entire countryside with a coal plant.

 

You do realize that the manufacturing process of making most high end batteries is as detrimental to the environment as the coal burning and driving SUV's and all the rest? I always get a kick out of these people who drive hybrids. They think they are doing something so great, but those batteries they are sitting on caused as much trouble for the environment as the guy who is rocking the Hummer or more.

[Xeryon]

Wind is not more expensive. The problem with wind is the NIMBY philospy. Meaning "Not In My Back Yard". The places that would be best for placing turbines are in high end luxary locations. For years in Mass they have been trying to place windmills off Cape Cod. The issue was always the Kennedy's who are all for Green Energy, but don't want their views obstructed.

 

See when it comes to environment most people are hypocrites.

 

Also on the nuclear energy. Over the last 20 or so years, the technology has gotten so much better that it is almost 100% safe. The issue is with two major meltdowns in the world, people have a stigma about it. They use Nuclear power every place else in the world, but the US is too afraid and again no one wants a reactor in their back yard.

 

Wind is more expensive, period. The reason it is more expensive has a lot to do with the coal industry being subsidized by various levels of government to keep the price of coal artificially low and the interference of previous administrations to impede the EPA from properly limiting the destructive measures of the coal industry to extract greater and greater quantities of the stuff from the ground. All of this does not mean we shouldn't be using wind as a part of the total solution.

 

As far as the NIMBY issue: currently within view of my back yard 50+ windmills are being built as we speak and I couldn't be fvcking happier about it. I am much happier that windmills are being built in my back yard and not a coal power plant. The technology for nuclear has really always been as safe as it is now. You are right, a couple of disasters worldwide have stagnated growth.

 

The ironic point to this is that there is no media coverage on the problems other fual sources have had at a catastrophic level. For example: two towns of around 1500 or so residents on the Ohio river no longer exist. Coal power plants up wind of them have caused the cancer rates to increase exponentially. The children of children that have never even stepped foot in those towns still have elevated cancer rates. The ground was so toxic from coal dust that grass wouldn't grow. The power companies quietly paid high market value for every single property in the region, paid substantial reparations to the surviving family members and completely bulldozed all the buildings, roads and infrastructure. This was only for the immeidatly surrounding region; what of all the other millions of people downwind that are getting their air-born cancers from multiple sources at a somewhat slower rate of accumulation?

[illaaf]

Wind is more expensive, period. The reason it is more expensive has a lot to do with the coal industry being subsidized by various levels of government to keep the price of coal artificially low and the interference of previous administrations to impede the EPA from properly limiting the destructive measures of the coal industry to extract greater and greater quantities of the stuff from the ground. All of this does not mean we shouldn't be using wind as a part of the total solution.

 

As far as the NIMBY issue: currently within view of my back yard 50+ windmills are being built as we speak and I couldn't be fvcking happier about it. I am much happier that windmills are being built in my back yard and not a coal power plant. The technology for nuclear has really always been as safe as it is now. You are right, a couple of disasters worldwide have stagnated growth.

 

The ironic point to this is that there is no media coverage on the problems other fual sources have had at a catastrophic level. For example: two towns of around 1500 or so residents on the Ohio river no longer exist. Coal power plants up wind of them have caused the cancer rates to increase exponentially. The children of children that have never even stepped foot in those towns still have elevated cancer rates. The ground was so toxic from coal dust that grass wouldn't grow. The power companies quietly paid high market value for every single property in the region, paid substantial reparations to the surviving family members and completely bulldozed all the buildings, roads and infrastructure. This was only for the immeidatly surrounding region; what of all the other millions of people downwind that are getting their air-born cancers from multiple sources at a somewhat slower rate of accumulation?

 

Trust me, I would love to put up a windmill and reap the benefits. The electric company would owe me money. Like I said though, no one in my neighobrhood would allow it, because it is ugly. People are A-holes about this at least on the east coast. All the fancy pants up here talk a big about saving the world, but when it is right there they don't want it.

 

Coal is very toxic, not to mention the issues with actually gettting it. The coal industry is in the back pocket of the Government actually just the Republicans. Look at the major coal producing states in the US. All of the officals are Republican. Without the coal industries several states would be SOL worse then they are now.

 

In reality, the US should be trying to put money into producing any items that create renewable energy, not into wars and the tools of war. The economy will get better because these industries will new produce jobs for all levels of people.

[Xeryon]

I cannot put up a windmill on my properly simply due to local building regulations. My lot is not large enough. So I did the next best thing; an 8.3kw solar array is being installed over the next two months.

[cmgogo]

we out here in the NW love wind, love it so much that on a VERY long stretch of scenic highway they have erected 225 of them in the last 10 or so years along the columbia gorge. I couldnt be happier. As far as expensive they really arent. I used to work for gamesa wind out of fairless hills PA manufacturing wind turbines (specificly the hub AOA assembley) and we could build 2 turbines a week (towers, blades, generators, hubs, and nacelles) that put out 2 MW per tower as long as the wind speed was over 17mph (which is damn near all of the time at the nacelle altitude) but would still generate electricity at 2mph. Total cost per turbine is about 1.2 million, total maintenance costs for a 30 year life span (till the nacelle needs to be overhauled 500K.

 

So over a 30 year life span the turbine costs 1.7 million.

 

Now lets break this down.

 

If you built 1 turbine and maintained it for 30 years at the tune of 1.7 million dollars

 

you start at -$1700000

Now 1 MW = 8760000 KWH, so 2 MW = 17520000 KWH per trubine

the current costs for electricity is

500 KWH / month @ $.058/KWH X 12 = 6K a year from the power company

then durring may - oct each additional KWH is $.10

and nov - apr is $.083 for each additional KWH

 

So if we take

(17520000 KWH - 6000 KWH)/2 (for the price switch) we end up with 8757000 X2

and 8757000 X .1 = $875700

and 8757000 X .083 = $726831

 

that is yearly

so

we take ($6000 + $875700 + $726831) and multiply it by 30 years and we come out with $48,078,465.50

now we take the original investment of 1.7 million

and we come up with a profit of

$46,378,469.50

 

That is PER turbine. now mind you, even if we only get 1/2 power from the turbine, over 30 years that is still a pure profit of $23,189,237.75 over 30 years.

 

Expensive.... bullsh!t. And I should know, i used to work for the company that made them.

 

*Sorry made a typo, the 1.2MW turbine is 1.2, the 2MW is 2.8 million, so yeah total profit is ONLY $21,589,234.75!*

 

The scary thought about this however is they are now in the process of producing a 8.9MW turbine that has an estimated life span of 45 years, chew on that.

[wannaBstuntin]

I got called in for death panel duty.

[Xeryon]

Expensive.... bullsh!t. And I should know, i used to work for the company that made them.

 

Not arguing with you on your point. If I could put one on my property I would cause it is worth it.

 

Couple things to note: You broke down the profit over the life of the structure. A more applicable calculation would be to calculate in a reverse direction and determine how much each w produced will cost over the life of the machine. Take that number and stack it up against the average w cost of generation from oil, hydro, solar, gas, coal and nuclear. When you compare the bottom line it is hardly a fair comparison as coal is usually cheapest. The problem is that the pollution from coal generation is never given a dollar value so it always LOOKS cheapest to people who don't pay attention, which is most of the population. Hence the muddle we are in today.

[illaaf]

Not arguing with you on your point. If I could put one on my property I would cause it is worth it.

 

Couple things to note: You broke down the profit over the life of the structure. A more applicable calculation would be to calculate in a reverse direction and determine how much each w produced will cost over the life of the machine. Take that number and stack it up against the average w cost of generation from oil, hydro, solar, gas, coal and nuclear. When you compare the bottom line it is hardly a fair comparison as coal is usually cheapest. The problem is that the pollution from coal generation is never given a dollar value so it always LOOKS cheapest to people who don't pay attention, which is most of the population. Hence the muddle we are in today.

 

The thing that people also don't take into account is the cost of procuring coal. I am not talking about the price, but the human cost. How much is a human life worth? How many people have died in coal mines in the past 5 years? Not to mention the people who are killing themselves daily working in them. Someone should consider that and factor in their healthcare costs.

 

Xeryon, what is with the eye?

[Xeryon]

Don't forget about mountaintop removal. Nothing like decimating the entire countryside to collect some little black rocks.

 

 

That picture is a reminder to all: when carpooling make sure at least one person stays awake.

The airbag had the honor of waking me from my slumber.

[illaaf]

Don't forget about mountaintop removal. Nothing like decimating the entire countryside to collect some little black rocks.

 

 

That picture is a reminder to all: when carpooling make sure at least one person stays awake.

The airbag had the honor of waking me from my slumber.

 

You know what they say why wait until tomorrow to ruin what you can today.

 

That sucks dude. How long ago? If it was recent you will now have health insurance to cover you, lol!

[Sport Injection]

Obama had to have the closed door meetings. At first he was trying to be transparent. Everything was done in public view. The problem became that reports started to report and talking heads like Rush Limbaugh took what was going on and misinterpreted it to the American public.

 

Healthcare reform in this case isn't great. The drug companies and insurance lobby have too much power. It will be better in the long run. Anything has to be better then the system they have now which is feast or famine.

 

Rush Is documented to be 99.7% correct. Better than what we have now. Wow. Ya I guess we only have the greatest healthcare system on the planet. Go ask Canadians or the Brits how they like theirs.

 

Sounds like you need to listen to Rush and receive a little enlightenment.

 

 

In reality, the US should be trying to put money into producing any items that create renewable energy, not into wars and the tools of war. The economy will get better because these industries will new produce jobs for all levels of people.

 

Its because of our tools of war that you are able to type what you just did. You should thank God for the money this country has invested into its military and its wars.

 

 

I got called in for death panel duty.

 

 

The thing that people also don't take into account is the cost of procuring coal. I am not talking about the price, but the human cost. How much is a human life worth? How many people have died in coal mines in the past 5 years? Not to mention the people who are killing themselves daily working in them. Someone should consider that and factor in their healthcare costs.

 

Are you fracking kidding me!

 

Every miner is getting paid to be in that mine, no one is forcing them to be down there. You know how many people have died harvesting and producing the food you eat in the last 5 years? Come On! Coal is vital in everyday life, The car you drive, the building you live/work in, and anything you see that is made of steel needs coking coal. Not to mention the coal that is needed to produce power for your computer. Someone should factor the health care cost if we didn't have coal to produce the things needed to save peoples lives.

 

I'm all for clean energy, but its not viable yet. When money can be made from it, it will be here.

[illaaf]

Rush Is documented to be 99.7% correct. Better than what we have now. Wow. Ya I guess we only have the greatest healthcare system on the planet. Go ask Canadians or the Brits how they like theirs.

 

Sounds like you need to listen to Rush and receive a little enlightenment.

 

 

 

Its because of our tools of war that you are able to type what you just did. You should thank God for the money this country has invested into its military and its wars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you fracking kidding me!

 

Every miner is getting paid to be in that mine, no one is forcing them to be down there. You know how many people have died harvesting and producing the food you eat in the last 5 years? Come On! Coal is vital in everyday life, The car you drive, the building you live/work in, and anything you see that is made of steel needs coking coal. Not to mention the coal that is needed to produce power for your computer. Someone should factor the health care cost if we didn't have coal to produce the things needed to save peoples lives.

 

I'm all for clean energy, but its not viable yet. When money can be made from it, it will be here.

 

I had a whole rebuttal written, but then I realized you are a Republican whole heartily and will not listen to reason. So yes, lets all do what Rush says, hell elect him president, after all we already had one drug addict there. Because we all know the guy who whines the loudest is always the guy with the best idea..........

 

People like you are the reason this country is where it is today. You only hear what you want to hear. Rush is the most sensational and entertaining so you listen to that. Do you also believe everything that is in the supermarket tabloids too? I say an article in the National Enquirer the other day that said Sandra Bullock is leaving Jesse James for an alien. Should I believe that too?

 

Keep in mind I am an Independent. I vote for the best candidate not the party.