dinsmoreracing Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 hey all, i am currenly running a toyota mr2 1.6l engine in my race car and i want to switch to a honda i have to run a 1.6l so a B16A was what i was looking at the problem is its a rear engine car and the transmission needs to spin the opposite way that the honda engine turns. will this engine work properly with the cams ground to run backwards and run the engine in reverse, i am going to run the dohc without vtec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick B. Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 why would you want to run it without vtec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 why would you want to run it without vtec? this engine will always run over 5000rpm so the variable timing would not be enough of a benefit to offset the cost of making reverse rotation cams for the VTEC engine unless someone already has them, the other problem is these engines will run with no computer controls to operate the variable timing. We can have cams made for the B16A that will work well at the high RPM we run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleanGSR Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 B16a isn't going to run without some type of ecu. How exactly are you going to control the injectors, a/f, etc....? That can't be run without an ecu......not to mention that you're going to need the fuel and ignition curves tuned for the new cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 why yould it have to be reverse rotaion. if you put it in the car with the cam gears to the left like it is now it'l still run normally. you could always use an automatic tranny and come up with a paddle shift setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 1st question we will run a crank trigger ignition and a MSD system to control the spark and advance curve, we build our own intake for weber 44 carbs and do not need EFI system. 2nd question a honda engine runs counter clockwise we need it to run clockwise therefore we need to reverse rotate the engine, to suit the VW transmission which turns clockwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 uhhh.....sounds waaaay to damn expensive IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prangy Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Idk if i am going to sound dumb, but w/e, why could you not use a honda tranny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 i asked that question already, i asked why he couldn't use an auto tranny. so you don't have to feel dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 we use the VW tranny because the engine is in the back of the car as you will see in the pic i attached. a honda tanny would not withstand the torque load and shock we will be producing. and we cannot get the suspension travel out of the CV's or axles. we use a VW tranny with porshe 930 racing cv's with bigger custom axles. racing is expensive thanks for replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 sorry heres the pic "http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f292/din...ug43-25med1.jpg" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 you use an IFS rear end. same as the civic front ends. so why wouldn't you be able to use the civic parts again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 first of all we cant do that because you have 2 very different length axles and the honda cv's cant go to the 26 degree angle the porshe ones dom and there isnt any gears available on the market to match our ratios and they would break when the car lands and our car is narrower the the front of a honda our tailing arms come way up into the engine compartment and will only allow for the engine to be lenghtways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 your best bet would be to talk to Pyrorocketeer. he's a VW guy and would prolly help you out alot more than the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 thanks for the replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleanGSR Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Definately talk to pyro. He even built a little offroad machine using tube frame and VW parts so he could probably be the most help from this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 flip the ring and pinion in your tranny, and get your starter rewound. call up Kennedy Engineering and get an adaptor plate, and flywheel. done. Or why not just redesign and go mid rear? then you don't have to mess with the tranny, and you just need an adaptor plate and flywheel. better weight distribution, so the front doesn't push as much. Unless you have a built 091 or mendola, the honda tranny would hold more torque btw, but it wouldn't work in your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 you cant make the engine run backwards , lol , never heard anything so stupid in all my life to be quite frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 They used to do it with corvairs cranny, so the idea isn't too far fetched. Oh btw kennedy engineering makes reverse rotation starters too.... here EDIT: it can be quite possible to make one run backwards now that i think about it.... really easy with carbs too, and a little more work with fuel injection. Just need a custom cam (delta cams would probably regrind your stocker), external oil pump (that probably means dry sump setup $$), and probably an electric water pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 It is a built special ratio 091 transaxles we us, they have different 1st 2nd main shafts, 3rd and 4th gears and various ratio ring and pinions , you cannot run the trans backwards as in a mid engine because the ring gear is not designed to take the shock load on the backside of the teeth nor will the gear teeth lubricate and cool properly running in reverse rotation as the cup of the tooth is designed to hold oil for hydrodynamic loading and the backside of the tooth will not do this. this has been tried by others and the premature wear and failure was bad. Mendenola transmissions can have the ring gear flipped and they will work but at $13,000.00 per trans for a new one I will try and avoid them for now. Web cam in California can grind the cams for reverse rotation I believe, but we were just checking to see if anyone has done this before. Revese rotation engine have been around since the early 60's they use revese rotation engines in boats all the time, the right engine will rotate clockwise and the left engine will rotate counterclockwise to balance the boat, all you have to do is have a cam ground that will allow this to happen by changing where the exh and intake cam timing occurs, they do it alot with sprint car engines so the car will turn left easier, not fighting the engine torque trying to twist the frame to the right. we will be running a dry sump oil system with and external pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 you cant turn a honda engine backwards period , forget it. the reason i say this , is cause its a timing belt engine , and the belt is only designed to turn one way. if it turns backwards , it will slack and slip for sure. i wasnt tlaking about anything other than honda engine pyro , not that crazy VW crap , lol. seen a badass beetle on blow it up pyro , ran 12.4 1/4 miles all day long. very consistent. he lost his clutch for a few runs , kept running it , lol , than all the sudden it started working again , lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsmoreracing Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 why can't we run the tensioner pulley on the other side, use a manual tensioner like they used on 2.2 Chry engines,fabricate a mount, block off the waterpump and run and electric water pump, all ready thought out the belt problem, it's no big deal, I think we can make more horse power with the honda over the toyota not to mention it is lighter. anything is possible, I guess no one has tried it yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 oh yeah... timing belt.... forgot about that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch92 Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 i just don't see it happending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airjordan223 Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 :stupid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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