97b18civic Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I just swapped a b18b1 ls and I was thinking about boosting it. My car is pretty much a daily driver so I need to know which would be better for turbo, cast or s.s. tubular, and why? I want to add that im only going to do a safe amount of boost, probably around 8psi untill I can afford to build up the engine. Also, would it be a bad idea to buy a manifold off ebay? Has anyone tried? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcat467 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 About the E-Bay manifold...there is an unanimous agreement around here...don't buy from E-Bay. People say the manifolds crack after time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 About the E-Bay manifold...there is an unanimous agreement around here...don't buy from E-Bay. People say the manifolds crack after time. apparently , according to you , theres only one kind of manifold on ebay eh , lol , only 1. dont listen to him dude , theres lots of good crap on ebay , just find it. watch peoples ratings , and dont buy no name crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Whatever, take your chances on eBay. I agree with cranny but I still think its better to just avoid eBay altogether. ANYWAY... I've always wondered the samething about header material. Like what's the pros and cons of sst and pros and cons of cast iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 stainless is best imo. lag mannys are good though. same things can happen to either one really. if you get a crack in a cast manifold , its done. if you get a crack in a stainless manny , you can fix them , over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 you can weld cast too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 You can weld austenitic stainless steels but that's really the only sst you can weld. Cast iron has much better damping properties than sst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90IntegraC1 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Log Type (cast) Manifolds: Cast iron manifolds are a great match for street performance. They are more crack resistant than tubular manifolds because they are one solid piece. They also take up less room and are cheaper than tubular manifolds. Most cast manifolds also allow for power steering and air conditioning. Some performance is sacrificed with a cast manifold compared to tubular manifolds, but not much. One disadvantage to many, but not all, cast manifolds is poor wastegate port placement. if you get a cast manifold, make sure the wastegate port is directly above the collecter so exhaust gases from all 4 cylinders can go through the wastegate: do not get a cast manifold in which the wastegate port is on one runner or only letting 2 cylinders of exhaust gases through like so: Tubular Equal Length Manifolds: For all out performance a tubular manifold is the only option. The runner length of these manifolds is made equal so that the exhaust pulses from each cylinder do not interfere with each other as they enter the turbine housing. This makes the most efficient use of the energy in the exhaust gases possible. The results are quicker spool up and better all around performance. How ever there are some disadvantages to tubular manifolds. Because of the equal length primaries the amount of surface area to radiate heat is a lot larger than with a cast manifolds. Also because of the way these manifolds are made, with segments of pipe welded together, variances in the consistency of the material promote cracking. Also keep in mind that the welds will be stressed with each heat cycle which also promotes cracks. One way to minimize the chance of cracking is to support the weight of the turbo with a bracket that bolts to the block. One advantage worth pointing out is that since these manifolds are handmade and not mass produced from a mold like the cast manifolds it is much easier to get manifolds with turbo flanges for turbos other than the Garrett T3 and flanges for various wastegates. Also be aware that using a tubular manifold may take up a bit more space and require that a Civic 'Half Length' radiator be used instead of the full size Integra radiator. Notable tubular manifolds include those made by Full Race, Rev Hard, South Florida Performance (SPF), and Love Fab, these are all quality manifolds. Those manifolds made by SS Autochrome, usually sold on ebay.com, are very well known for cracking, they should be avoided. mmmk, i hope this assists you in your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 yes you can weld cast , but noone does , and it has to be brazed. acetelyne weld only as far as i know. maybe you can tig it idk. You can weld austenitic stainless steels but that's really the only sst you can weld.Cast iron has much better damping properties than sst. its also heavy as hell. so is stainless i guess but not as much as cast. you can weld any stainless a header is made from , there that better mycar , lol. i dont know what you mean by damping properties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Lol, you kind of answered your own question cranny. It has good damping properties because it is heavy as hell. It means like damping sound or sound-proofing. Get it? Depends on what kind of cast iron the manifold is made out of before you can say its weldable. If it has any sulfur in its alloy composition, its NOT weldable. And if you do weld a cast manifold and you don't know what you're doing, it can crack and you just lost a turbo manifold. I like 90's info. There's one part that says the tubular manifolds will crack on you after a while because of the hanging turbo and the heat and stress on the welds. But if you mount the turbo better (not just on the manifold) its better for the piping. Yeah they get hot easier too but if you have a lot of room around them they'll probably be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 yeah that was good info on the wastegate setup on mannys 90. i never really looked at them that close before. welding cast is FTL. if i cant pull out the mig welder and run a bead , take it somewheres else buddy , hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcat467 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 apparently , according to you , theres only one kind of manifold on ebay eh , lol , only 1. dont listen to him dude , theres lots of good crap on ebay , just find it. watch peoples ratings , and dont buy no name crap. Sorry but that's not how I meant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 you need to heat it up like red hot then weld to cast. Plus you have to use a special gas shield so it won't crack. the problem with it is that it sucks up too much of the heat from welding, and you can't get good penetration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 In other words...its a nuisance to weld cast iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 It is a little tougher to weld than ss, thats it. get a mild steel header, and get it ceramic coated. It now holds the heat in your header better than ss or cast. Which equates to more heat retained, and quicker/more boost, and lower under hood temps. just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97b18civic Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 Alotta info. lol thanks. i think im gonna try the last idea to get a mild steel header and get it ceramic coated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 make sure it is a reputable company thats doing the coating if done elsewhere. Most ceramic coated stuff that you can buy off the shelf have a pretty crappy ceramic coat. (ebay header ceramic coat comes off with thinner, or in my case, carb cleaner. <--- It sucks....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 SS Autochrome FTMFL Well I guess a mild steel header is good if you're gonna do a lot welding to the header but I say if you don't know how to weld and just wanna have a header, get Sst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 well you can't weld to a mild steel header that has been ceramic coated tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS John Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 But can you cc a header that has been welded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycarsux Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well I guess a mild steel header is good if you're gonna do a lot welding to the header but I say if you don't know how to weld and just wanna have a header, get Sst. When did I say ceramic coated? I guess you thought that I implied it. Ok. Yeah true. I doubt many tuners know how to weld anyways. I will soon once I get off my ass. But can you cc a header that has been welded? You don't wanna do that. It'll most likely crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranny Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 mild steel is the worst thing you could do , it will under the heat of boost. and by the way you can weld a ceramic coated mild steel header , without even grinding the ceramic off , and im not gonna argue cause ive done it , more than a couple times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrorocketeer Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I betcha it wasn't a clean weld, and will prolly crack over time. A good ceramic coat is just like a layer of paint. can't weld correctly through paint, so you can't weld through ceramic coat. and mild steel is what ever other header is made out of and no one else has problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2gboostedteg Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Also, would it be a bad idea to buy a manifold off ebay? Has anyone tried? Thanks. If you get a tubular manifold make sure that it supports from the tubes to the turbo flange otherwise the the pipes will crack off from the flange to the head and turbo, also if you hit a hard enough bump the flange for the wastegate will probablly break off, I have had all these things happen to me because i bought a cheap ebay manifold. If you do buy from ebay make sure its name brand it will save you a lot of headaches in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2gboostedteg Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Alotta info. lol thanks. i think im gonna try the last idea to get a mild steel header and get it ceramic coated.. Or i thinks its called jet black coating, it coats the inside of the manifold aswell as the outside and you can actually touch the manifold at operating temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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