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crx b16 running rich on and off


rx7turbo287

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i have a 90 honda crx si with b16a1 y1 lsd with pr3 obo 0, i bought the car that way, have it for a month it ran great, good gas mileage, well except when i get on it. but recently car been running rough, first start off i have a main fuel line leaking, i replace the hose, before i replace it the car will hestilting on accel, (sorry for spelling) and it's on and off thu power band, it start early rpm, it feel like i hit a fuel cut, then it fuel kick back on then fuel cut again, i don't think its my fuel its cutting off, i just saying the way it feel when under heavy load. it happen worst when it first start in the morning, and also cold weather. but once warm up it run great. but once awhile it will do that again, even when it warm up already, but happen less. i replace fuel filter, fix the fuel line,(replace with new hose)i cleaned the iacv cuz it was idle up and down. i replace ignition wires, the dizzy its new. the adjustable cam gear both set on 0, and dizzy set on advance, couldn't tell u how far, but its almost all the way. it have denzo iridium plug, and i replace them with ngk v grove(it did feel better less vibration on idle), just some new plug to get by right now. there something i did check its my alternator, its putting out below 11.5, it barely keep system running, my buddy think thats a possible that since my system not keeping up, it affect my ecu and fuel pump, ignition, it could cost the problem, but he wasn't sure. i haven't replace the 02 but i don't think it make a huge different.

reason i think its running rich, first it pop a lot after i left of throttle, (it could be timing not sure.)

and i m losing more fuel then normal.

sorry i wish i can make this sound little bit more clear. but i hope someone who there have same problem before and found the problem. any advice will help thanks

oh there its one thing, i drove for 30min on the highway, and back, and the car felt much better, but then next morning it start back again.

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Get your timing set back to stock. Should be 16 degrees BTDC. Have your charging system checked by a reputable place, with top of the line equipment...not some autozone crap. Also, please tell me that English isn't your first language.

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Get your timing set back to stock. Should be 16 degrees BTDC. Have your charging system checked by a reputable place, with top of the line equipment...not some autozone crap. Also, please tell me that English isn't your first language.

 

lol, yeah its not, , but also i was in a hurry too at work, wasn't suppose to use the computer for honda forum.

 

yeah, i get the alternator check out.

so far for timing, on stock timing on the aem gears. it should be 0?

one of the reason the dis is advice, cuz the engine didn't respone well at close to stock timing.

but i give it a shot.

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ok, i set the time, everything is good, the hestation got worst. it does it in any gear, with engine warm or cold. and i m losing more gas, i thinking about 15 to 18 mpg. city and highway. i check the ecu, look thu the glass. sure there was a code. 1 long 4 short. code 14. which list iacv or bad ecm. Well thats what the book say. now how can i find out my pr3 no good? i guess i can plug in and other obd0 honda and run it, i shouldn't get the code 14 again, right? and it shouldn't have the problem. if it does then bad ecu. if it doesn't then iacv. but will a bad iacv can mess with my accel, fuel mileage decrease and bad accel??? i don't have the idle up and down problem, well once away it come on then go away few sec. but my idle always high. any advice??

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take the negative terminal of your battery off for 15 seconds and put it back in, to see if the code comes back again. If it does, the problem is still there...

 

By the way, to reset ecu, you have to take out the ecu fuse out for 1 minute and then put it back in.

 

The running rich problem could be your Oxygen sensor!!

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i worked on mecedez and bmw, i know that even on the late 80s, that the computer found a problem on the vehicle, it will put it L mode. it runs, but like crap. to basically to take u to the shop about it. i wonder thats what the pr3 doing. but my friend have a 0bd1 b16a delsol, it was running p28 with some reason, and have iacv problem and still run like a champ.

sorry for at lot of question. i just don't want to go out and start replace this and that, and still end up with the same problem, but burn a hole in my wallet, lol.

yea o2 its possible but not enough to cost the engine bog down heavy. like a fuel cut on a turbo car. (DSM, supra, etc)

well better way to explain, have anyone drove a factory turbo car, and pull the hose of the bov?? everytime u shift after it blow off??? u got so much fuel in the engine but not enough air. that is exactly what its doing, but i don't have a turbo on it.

 

 

i don't know i google a lot, and i come across few forum, that ppl ask the same question about the same problem i got

there was a guy change out everything u name off, and still got the problem. i guess its a common problem, but didn't look like anyone got an answer for it.

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ok, i done some google search, it look like there few ppl out there have the same problem, it happen around different rpm, which mine does the same thing.

one of them have replace o2, plug, fuel, most tune up stuff, still have problem, so one guy find there some problem with rotor on the dizzy. so he replace with one laying around and it make a big different, but he still getting the problem on and off. not as bad. his last post was to wait till it is empty and run some better gas, becuz he relize it was like a knock problem. it must be some type of fix out there, becuz it look like there's few crx b16 have the same type problem. i will cont my search and repost here for other ppl, but also anyone out there got some idea.

please post here. thx

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ok!!!, this is what i come across. i don't have the money for a new pump yet, will try o2 first and see, but my problem few more like the first one. as soon i replace the pump. i will post again. but this is interesting. i hope this will solve the problem.

 

The problem is your O2 sensors reporting incorrectly to the ECU... provided that the bogging isn't very serious. OK, start from the beginning.

 

There are two main types of bogging problems I've personally experienced with my '88 B16A CRX. Both are currently solved, so don't take anyone's bullcrap saying these solutions won't work - they will. The first bogging problem is a total and complete loss of power when at speed. The car's still running, it's in gear, it's on, but the more you press the gas the more it bogs down. This is caused by a defective/dying fuel pump. Replace it immediately or the problem will get worse and worse until your car dies. Replacing the fuel filter strainer will not solve the problem; it's the pump itself. Pick up a Holly 255lph pump online at http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com for about $107, et voila - problem solved.

 

The second bogging problem involves the O2 sensors, and it's kind of like a surging/bogging which happens repeatedly when the car's at PART THROTTLE ONLY... ie., mashing on it will stop it from bogging. This problem is caused by one bank of cylinders running abnormally lean - I believe it's the cylinder pair #1 and #2 (those sourced by the secondary O2 sensor in the downpipe). This plagued me for months before someone (Derick from Hondata) told me the way to fix it. The solution to this one's real easy, and you're gonna love it - unplug both your O2 sensors. That's it, that's all. You WILL receive a check engine light from time to time, but ignore it; it's just signalling the O2 sensors are disconnected. What's more, it doesn't affect any of your car's systems.

 

I hope that helps. Let us know which of the two problems you were suffering from.

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i'm confused now, i read up more about the bogging problem, find out that obo0 b16a have 2 o2 sensor, and 1 read 1,2 bank, and the other read 3,4 bank, which it'll rich or leah out the pair. well i look at my setup, it's 1 o2 installed only, and also make it fun, its a dc sport 4-1 header. will try to install second o2 and see. i think i wait on the fuel pump.

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i find out i only have 1 o2 installed. I unpluged it today and my car came back to life. no more bogging, exhaust popping, I would say much faster than when i first bought the car. now i got to figure out what to do to get both o2 back on there, the only problem is i running a dc sport 4-1 header. Only with 1 o2 on the pipe, even if i weld one next to it. it will still messure all 4 cyclinder mixture. won't do me any good, suggestion anyone?

 

now if i run obd1, it only require to run 1 o2 sensor right??

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alright, i finally got this down. lol

i going to obd 1 where i can run 1 o2 sensor(pre heated 4wires)

 

there's not a way to fix the o2 problem unless i have a jdm b16a manifold or something close to it.

 

using 1 o2 sensor and spliting the wires to c8 and c16 won't work either.\

the o2 only read a combine mixture, so it will not work on it.

 

the 2 ways i found out so far, its 1 to convert to obd1 or have the o2 simulator running on ecu.

 

the temporary fix its unplug the o2 sensor, where the ecu cannot read the signal, and go into closed loop or open loop, lol i can't remember which its which. but its the same.

will make the engine run rich and also losing little bit mid range power. but will temp fix problem.

 

this is a very common problem for the crx with the jdm b16a running the obd 0 pw0 or pr3. Some swap will run fine for a long time, but the bogging problem will come at one point.

 

this is a long research, but hey, at least i find out what it is. i hope this help everyone will the same problem.

 

 

pw0 and pr3 obd0 does have 2 o2sensor. pin c8 and c16

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alright, i finally got this down. lol

i going to obd 1 where i can run 1 o2 sensor(pre heated 4wires)

 

there's not a way to fix the o2 problem unless i have a jdm b16a manifold or something close to it.

 

using 1 o2 sensor and spliting the wires to c8 and c16 won't work either.\

the o2 only read a combine mixture, so it will not work on it.

 

the 2 ways i found out so far, its 1 to convert to obd1 or have the o2 simulator running on ecu.

 

the temporary fix its unplug the o2 sensor, where the ecu cannot read the signal, and go into closed loop or open loop, lol i can't remember which its which. but its the same.

will make the engine run rich and also losing little bit mid range power. but will temp fix problem.

 

this is a very common problem for the crx with the jdm b16a running the obd 0 pw0 or pr3. Some swap will run fine for a long time, but the bogging problem will come at one point.

 

this is a long research, but hey, at least i find out what it is. i hope this help everyone will the same problem.

 

 

pw0 and pr3 obd0 does have 2 o2sensor. pin c8 and c16

Um...you could add the 2nd O2 sensor, it goes after the cat.

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i wish i could. but the system won't work that way either.

 

this is from hondata tech page.

 

Pre-OBD I Engines

 

Early VTEC engines use two oxygen sensors arranged to read one cylinder pair per oxygen sensor. The mixture for each cylinder pair is tuned separately. It is important not to wire the sensors around the wrong way, otherwise one cylinder pair will run lean, and the other pair rich. It is also important not to wire one oxygen sensor into both sensor inputs, otherwise the engine will run either very lean or very rich.

 

OBD II Engines

 

OBD II engines use one oxygen sensor before the catalytic converter, and one oxygen sensor after the catalytic converter. The function of the second oxygen sensor is to determine if the catalytic converter is functioning. It does this by looking at the difference between the two oxygen sensors. If the catalytic converter is functioning correctly there will be a reduction in the exhaust oxygen content as carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide is catalyzed in the converter.

 

from http://www.hondata.com/techclosed.html

 

 

the system are different on obd 0, because o2 sensor only read 2 cylinder, can't run it before or after cat. it will they 1 pair of cylinder to run rich while other run lean or whichever the computer decided to do.

the obd 1 design to run 1 to read compine mixture.

obd1 system its not hard to do at all. dizzy, computer, and jumper. jumper only 60bucks ship from ebay.

dizzy... well i got hook up at autozone, and my dizzy is new, so i can warranty mine and get obd1.

for computer i don't know what to run. p30 from delsol? or p61 gsr integra? or obd1 p72? not sure. i think i will stay away from p28chiped. at lot ppl run it but i heard p30 are much better. not sure.

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  • 5 weeks later...
i have a 90 honda crx si with b16a1 y1 lsd with pr3 obo 0, i bought the car that way, have it for a month it ran great, good gas mileage, well except when i get on it. but recently car been running rough, first start off i have a main fuel line leaking, i replace the hose, before i replace it the car will hestilting on accel, (sorry for spelling) and it's on and off thu power band, it start early rpm, it feel like i hit a fuel cut, then it fuel kick back on then fuel cut again, i don't think its my fuel its cutting off, i just saying the way it feel when under heavy load. it happen worst when it first start in the morning, and also cold weather. but once warm up it run great. but once awhile it will do that again, even when it warm up already, but happen less. i replace fuel filter, fix the fuel line,(replace with new hose)i cleaned the iacv cuz it was idle up and down. i replace ignition wires, the dizzy its new. the adjustable cam gear both set on 0, and dizzy set on advance, couldn't tell u how far, but its almost all the way. it have denzo iridium plug, and i replace them with ngk v grove(it did feel better less vibration on idle), just some new plug to get by right now. there something i did check its my alternator, its putting out below 11.5, it barely keep system running, my buddy think thats a possible that since my system not keeping up, it affect my ecu and fuel pump, ignition, it could cost the problem, but he wasn't sure. i haven't replace the 02 but i don't think it make a huge different.

reason i think its running rich, first it pop a lot after i left of throttle, (it could be timing not sure.)

and i m losing more fuel then normal.

sorry i wish i can make this sound little bit more clear. but i hope someone who there have same problem before and found the problem. any advice will help thanks

oh there its one thing, i drove for 30min on the highway, and back, and the car felt much better, but then next morning it start back again.

 

 

i recommend converting to obd1 and getting a p72 or p28 ecu, get hondata s100($195) or s300($595) and get it tuned.

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